Welcome And Tom’s Unusual Work

Amy Dardis 0:10

This is the Building a Clear Authentic Brand Podcast, and I'm your host, Amy Dardis. And today I am so excited to have Tom Vander Well on the show. Tom is the CEO of Intelligentics. They are a customer experience research and training firm. And he's actually spent more than 30 years analyzing over a hundred thousand recorded business conversations across corporate America, which actually led him to write his book, This Call May Be Monitored, What Eavesdropping on Corporate America taught me about business and life. So, Tom, thank you so much for being on the show today.

Speaker 0:52

Amy, thanks so much for having me. I'm just really honored to be on the show.

Amy Dardis 0:56

So that's an interesting occupation that you have. It's an interesting business that I'm sure you didn't grow up thinking, wow, one day I really hope that I'm listening to recorded conversations.

Speaker 1:08

No, not at all. And in fact, I always say that, you know, when the guidance counselor in high school likes talks to you about what you might want to do for a career, if anybody had told me, well, Tom, you're going to spend your life listening to over 100,000 business phone calls, I would have just said, you know, prescribe me antidepressants and get me a therapist because that just sounds awful. But one of the things that I've learned in my experience is that God knows what's better for us than than we sometimes know for ourselves. And so after going down a path that I thought I was supposed to be on and becoming clear that that wasn't the path I was supposed to be on, the door opened for this really strange job. It was 1994. And the whole idea of call monitoring and quality assessment, your call being monitored for quality and training purposes, it was it was kind of a brand new thing. And like literally, my first client that I worked with, we were using cassette recorders and literally like connecting the cassette recorder to a phone jack that would like on a customer service representative's desk. And then we'd wait for them to answer the phone and hit the record button. And like my desk for years was just piles of cassette tapes. And my walkman was my friend. And uh boy, technology has changed a lot. But I got to get into it like on the ground floor. And I was kind of like in the pioneer stages of this whole business discipline. And it's just been a wild ride. And there's just so many things that I've I've learned in that experience.

Amy Dardis 2:42

When you first got started, like, do you remember what your initial thoughts were on this experience of

Finding Meaning In Routine Calls

Amy Dardis 2:50

sitting there and listening to other people's conversations?

Speaker 2:53

Yeah. And people kind of go, wow, you must have heard some really interesting things in your career. And I have, but the reality is that most customer conversations are really routine. They're robotic. They're the same thing over and over and over again. And so there's a piece of it that's like really boring, but and really boring. I mean, yeah. At the same time, what it caused me to do is like, okay, there's more going on in this conversation than anybody in the conversation is aware of. And it forces you to kind of go deeper to understand the layers of communication that are happening because that's where the gold is, especially from a business perspective.

Amy Dardis 3:42

Yeah.

Speaker 3:42

And like even today, companies, companies who do QA quality assessment and call monitoring, they oftentimes just focus on what that customer service representative is saying, or just what they say and how they say it. And did they do what was expected of them? But there is so much more going on that if you learn, if you learn how to listen and you learn how to hear, there's just so much for a business to learn from about what the pain points customers are experiencing and the systemic issues that may not be working for the customer, or the policies or procedures our company has that, you know what? Customers just think they're stupid and they're creating calls and problems. And if you can get to that level of listening, then you can begin to really see an ROI that's far beyond just what a customer service representative says. It's beginning to really help move the customer experience to a different level.

Amy Dardis 4:37

That's one of the points that you make in your book, right? Is like learning how to listen actively. Is that something that you felt like you've always been a good listener? Or is that something you feel like you've had to develop along the way?

Speaker 4:51

Well, you know, it's interesting because uh another piece that comes out in my book is that when I, when I went to college, I had asked several mentors of mine who wise adults who I really valued, say, if you had to do it all over again, what would you do? And I had multiple people say, you know what? I would have really focused my undergraduate degree in college on what I really loved, what I was really passionate about. And so I was really passionate about theater. I loved acting and I loved theater in high school and was really involved. So I became a theater major. And and the cool thing about being a theater major is that I learning theater is really about communication and understanding not just the text of the role, but the subtext, what's really going on. And and so I really felt like being a theater major prepared me for active listening and for understanding that there are layers of communication that are happening in this conversation. I I couldn't have had a better education for what I do. And the cool thing, and and in my book, Amy,

Theater Training And Deep Listening

Speaker 6:10

the I kind of split it up and like the the title of the book is This Call May Be Monitored, What Eavesdropping on Corporate America taught me about business and life. Because what the book really pulls out is that in listening to 100,000 business conversations, I've learned lessons, spiritual lessons, human lessons that have helped me in just being a better husband and father. And one of those is just what you're talking about, these layers of communication. That in as I break down these business conversations into these different levels, I began to understand that, well, wait a minute. When when my wife and I are having a conflict, there are multiple things going on here. It's not just the words. There's a there's a meta communication that's happening. And so it allowed me in many cases throughout my marriage to be able to step back and go, okay, let's talk about how we're talking about this conflict. Because that sometimes is really where the rub is. It's like going, well, wait a minute, we're we're saying these things and feeling these things, but the reality is that the miscommunication is happening on a different level. And if we can figure out how we're miscommunicating, then we can come together and figure out how to resolve this conflict. And you know what? That happens in every human conflict. I don't care what it is.

Amy Dardis 7:38

No, I agree. I do so you made two interesting points there. One was that your seemingly very unrelated theater background like ended up preparing you for what you would step into without you knowing that. But obviously, it's so cool how God uses things that we would have never guessed to help prepare and shape us for a a calling on our life. And then two, that when you're when you're talking talking and learning all these things in business, it's not a silo, right? Like what we learn in business, like as much as we would love to probably think that we separate work and life, and oh, that's business stuff, and that's my my kids stuff, and that's my marriage stuff, like it's not that clean. And it it 100% doesn't work that way.

Speaker 8:28

Absolutely. And so let me unpack a couple of lessons that came out of being a theater major that helped me in business. So in 2006, I began writing this blog. It's called the Wayfarer Blog. It's now a podcast as well. And the idea was simple. I read one chapter of the Bible every weekday, and then I just read the chapter, I think about what it means for me today, and then I just I blog about what it makes me think about. And I started that in 2006. I'm still doing it. I've been through the Bible a couple of times. So that was my blog. But sometimes I just I have an idea or brainstorm and I just throw it out there in a blog post. So, in over 20 years and over 5,500 blog posts, I've had one post go viral. One. And it was in 2012. And it had, it wasn't one of my chapter a day posts. I just had this brainstorm. I was on a plane on my way home from a business trip, and I was thinking about how being a theater major has really prepared me for my job and and for life in amazing ways. So, in like 10, 15 minutes, I just typed out this post. 10 ways being a theater major prepared me for success. I got home, I threw it out to the internet, and it blew up. And like I had, you know, for somebody whose chapter day posts got, you know, 20, 30 views, this theater major post had over a hundred thousand views in the first month. And I started getting emails from actors and producers in Hollywood and Broadway saying, Oh my gosh, this is, you know, the whole world needs to hear this. And to this day, it you'll find this post on countless university and college theater program websites.

Amy Dardis 10:17

That's okay.

Speaker 10:19

Yeah. And so, but it's really, really true because what theater did for me, so you I think about it, not only do was it the communication and learning communication, but I do a lot of presentations. I do a lot of customer service training. And one of the things you learn in theater is how to improvise when things aren't going right. And when somebody blows a line, you got to figure it out in the moment. There are countless times that I'm in front of a huge audience and things aren't going right, and I got to improvise in the moment. There are, you know, there are times where you just have to make do with what you have. And that was something I learned. Coaching people. So in my acting training, I had to learn how to get inside a character that I'm portraying. You do character analysis and you do character studies and you figure out who this person is and you figure out what's their motivation. And as I coached people to be a better customer service representative, one of the things I learned is it's no different than actor training because different people are motivated by different things. Yeah. So if I have a really sweet person who is altruistically motivated to just care for people, well, that's that's a slam dunk. But sometimes people, I've had people that are like, they're only motivated by money, or they're only motivated by pride, or they're only motivated by competitiveness and being number one. And I I've had to learn how to tailor my coaching based on the thing that's going to motivate that person. I learned all of that in acting. And so there are just all of these different ways that my theater training, being a theater major, just there's and it's just amazing because it's a God thing. Yeah. Only God could know that, oh no, no, no. This is what you need to do because this is what's going to serve you.

Amy Dardis 12:08

So true. I also was, I wasn't a theater major in college, but I did theater all throughout high school. And yes, I think it gave me some great skills.

Speaker 12:18

Yes. And I I've actually had a couple of opportunities. I've been in a couple of films and and worked with some, you know, I I worked with the director who was the director of the camp classic, The Blob, back in the 1950s with Steve McQueen and worked for him for a number of years. I was in a I was in a short film with uh a couple of people that you would know in Hollywood today. And I've experienced that, but I also, here in Little Pella, Iowa, where I live, I was president of our local community theater for like 13 years. And one of the things I bring out in the book is that there's a difference between companies who really care about service excellence. They really care about doing things right. And I liken that to a really professional theater or film production where the difference between good and great is in the details. And most of my clients over the years have taken the taken the journey of kind of going, no, no, no, no. We want to be great. We want to our customers to really have an experience that leaves them wanting to come back and bring their friends and talk about how great we are. And there's a journey to getting there, and that's what Intelgentics does. Most businesses operate like community theater, where it's where it's sort of like, let's just throw people up on stage with a memorized line and have fun and just do your best. And that's what businesses often do. Well, hey, we've got good people. Just get on the phone, just do your thing. You're a good person. I'm sure you're doing a great job. Well, they may be a great person. I'm sure they are. But that doesn't mean they are really great at customer service. It doesn't mean that they are at a level where they're delivering an exceptional customer experience. And the only way to get there is by listening and coaching and training people how to deliver that experience. So that's just another level where theater just kind of taught me, wow, no difference between business and show business.

Amy Dardis 14:27

So you you you said the part about listening, but then also about like people being motivated by different things. And have you found that there are some people who are naturally wired to be great

Motivation, Coaching, And Hardheaded Talent

Amy Dardis 14:40

at customer service, and there are some people who are not.

Speaker 14:44

Yes, absolutely. It's true. Great example. I got a couple of great stories for you. One is that we worked for this company that was a cable company, basically like back in the days of the big cable companies. And they had they had a customer service team, but then they also had a retention team, which meant that if a customer called in and said, Hey, I want to cancel my subscription, I'm thinking about going to DirecTV or whatever, the retention team would get that call. And you had people whose job it was to try and give them an offer to keep them as a customer. So you're basically, it's a sales process, basically. And what we learned as we worked with this client over many years is that there are people who are really good at the customer service, the care, and the people who are really good at the retention are different people. And they're motivated by different, different things. And if you have the wrong people in the wrong seats, then you're gonna struggle because salespeople are different. And that brings me to my next story. Because one of my first coaching experiences was with this company, it was the sales team. They sold little electronic components that go get and manufactured as part of other bigger things. And one of the sales guys, a young brash, braggadocio young man. And so I'm sitting in the conference room waiting for our first coaching session together. And he walks in, and he's a big guy, and he's towered over me. Like I'm sitting at the conference, he towered like over me. And he said, I just want you to pleep and know that I pleep and I care what you pleep and think about this, and there's nothing you can pleep and tell me about my pleepin' job that's gonna help me in bleeping ways to do this. Like, I mean, it was just this like expletive laden like rant, and he gets done, and I'm like, okay, have a seat. We're off to a good start. And I coached that young man for over 25 years.

Amy Dardis 16:52

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 16:54

Every quarter, sometimes every two months. And early on in the relationship, it I again, I come back to like I I didn't want to coach him. He didn't want to be coached. And I I, you know, I'm feeling that so I'm like, oh, I gotta approach this something different. So I went back to my acting training. I'm like, well, what motivates him? And one of the things I thought about is like, well, you know what? It's obvious. What motivates him is money. He's a sales guy, he wants to make money, he's a young guy, he wants all of the accumulate, all the wealth and all the stuff and be successful. And so I tried a different tack with him. And the next coaching session, I sat down and I said, Hey, look, I know you don't want to be here. I know you don't want to go through this process, but just hear me out because we have surveyed your customers. We've literally surveyed your customers, and they have told us when I call, when I'm doing business with you, these are the things that I want. These are the things that satisfy me, these are the things that drive that satisfaction. So when I'm coaching you to apologize because the customers' expectations haven't been met, or to use the customer's name to build that rapport and personal service relationship and be courteous when you're asking for information. I said, I know it seems trivial and stupid, but I can tell you that this is what your customers say they really value. So if you deliver it and they are satisfied, more satisfied, you're gonna get more sales and you're gonna make more money. And you're gonna have customers who are like going, oh, well, I buy stuff with this other competitor over here, but you know what? I'd much rather buy it from my favorite sales guy over here because I just love working with him. And I said, It's a no-brainer, but it's at least worth a shot because I'm just talking about saying a few words. And you know what? He would never, ever, ever admit it. Never would he admit it. And never did he not complain and have a bad attitude. But as we listened to the calls and we analyzed the data, he began doing the things I was coaching him to do. Slowly, but he began building different habits. And guess what? I watched him in his career go from frontline sales to becoming one of the global sales account managers for the entire company.

Speaker 1 19:13

Wow.

Speaker 19:14

And one of the greatest compliments I've ever had in my career is now fast forward like 25 years, and we're in this sales meeting with all these newbie salespeople, and he's sitting there now, the global account manager, and he goes, Hey, you guys, I just want you to know you're gonna hate Tom. You're gonna hate him, and you're gonna hate doing this call monitoring thing, you're gonna hate doing the coaching thing. I I get it because I've hate I always hated it, but you know what? It's important and it works, and it will make you a better salesperson. I'm like, oh yes! I'll take the compliment. It's uh yeah, it's like going, well, sometimes you do the work and you don't feel the fuzzy, warm things that come from it, but in the end, it you succeed, and that was one of the things I learned.

Amy Dardis 20:05

Did his relationship towards you change over that 25 years? Like when you guys were you know doing the one-on-one stuff?

Speaker 20:13

It I mean, it did. You know, he got to a point of just like going, okay, we gotta do this.

Amy Dardis 20:18

Mm-hmm. But he never fully I mean, he bought in, but he like didn't it was never very no, there was never like, hey Tom, it's good to see you.

Speaker 20:26

It was always like a rolling of the eyes, oh, you're here again. Yeah. It just was what it was. And I knew that it wasn't personal. I I just I just showed like I know this isn't personal. And, you know, if we'd gone out for lunch or hang out after work, it would have been fine. We'd had had a great conversation and gotten along just fine. But he just hated the process of having to listen to his

The Research To Coaching Flywheel

Speaker 20:50

own calls and be told that you can do this better. It just was what it was.

Amy Dardis 20:54

So in your business, that's kind of like the approach you guys take is you listen to the call and then figure out the data, but then you also take that. And then what do you do with that with your client? How do you implement that?

Speaker 21:10

So there are really three pieces to it. And it's, you know, when people say, Well, what is it you do? My mother used to ask that at least once a year. What is it that you do? I don't get it. Okay, well, at the core of it, we're a market research firm. We do customer satisfaction research and voice of the customer, any kind of market research we do, just like any other market research firm. But our founder, Mr. Winger, was like going, you know, there's there's a bigger opportunity because a classic research firm will do the survey of your customers, will figure out how satisfied they are, what drives their satisfaction, and then you you give them the report and you plop it on their desk, and it's their responsibility at that point to do whatever they're gonna do with it. So he said, Well, wait a minute. So what if we said, All right, here's what your customers are saying. Here's what they expect, and here's what will drive their satisfaction. But now we're actually going to listen to a sample of actual moments of truth where the customers are interacting with the company, whether that's sales or customer service or accounting or collections or whatever. I've listened to everything. And we're going to listen to those analytically to really analyze well, where are the gaps? Where are there things the customers are saying, hey, this is what really satisfied me, but we're really not delivering that. And once we've identified where that gap is, well, then the third step is really natural. Either we do some team training to say, here are the opportunities to improve that customer experience by consistently saying this and approaching situations this way, or sitting down one-on-one and coaching people one-on-one. Let's listen to a couple of your phone calls and let's talk about the opportunities you have. And we know this isn't just like off the shelf customer service training. This is, no, we've listened to your customers. Your customers are saying that this is what they want. So I am going to help you do what your customers want. And if we do that, then we know that your customers will be more satisfied. If they're more satisfied, they'll be more loyal. You're going to retain them longer. And everyone knows it's a lot harder to get a new customer through the door than it is to keep an existing customer. And that's really where the ROI is. And so, like with the company that I, this company I told you about, we literally just kind of went through that circle again and again for over 25 years. Every year we do a, we do a survey. What's the customer saying this year? On an ongoing basis, we were listening to their sales team. And on a quarterly basis, I was coaching that team. And we just kind of became their their research and quality

The Three Drivers Customers Always Want

Speaker 23:50

team for over 25 years until they get they sold to a big German conglomerate. So yeah.

Amy Dardis 23:55

So it was tailored and specific to them, but doing it across all the clients that you've had, have you found common themes with those gaps being present?

Speaker 24:07

Yes, absolutely. There are always nuances by customer base and by industry or market, but there are three universals. And I talk about this in the book. I call it the holy trinity of customer satisfaction. And there, it's always these three, and it's always in the same order. And I don't care what company it is. Number one is one contact resolution. I've got a problem, I've got a question, I want to call you or email you or contact you. And I want that resolved in one contact. And number two is I want to feel like you care about me as a customer. Courtesy, friendliness. I want to feel like I've got a personal relationship with the you as a company, to feel like I you care about me as a customer, that you care that my expectations have not been met. That's number two. And number three, which actually in the first 15 years of my career, not quite 15 years, there were only two. Those were the only two. And then in 2007, Steve Jobs and Apple introduced this gadget. And the smartphone came into being. And starting in 2000, our research began to show that time-related dimensions of service began to grow as a driver of satisfaction across the board, like with every client in every industry. And it only got bigger when Amazon came into the picture. And so technology has created this third, this third person in the Holy Trinity of customer satisfaction, and that is respect my time. Now, there's a little bit of nuance here, and this is where also there's a great lesson for life. In research, we talk about what are penalty variables and what are reward variables. A penalty variable is a dimension of service where the customer says, if you do this, I am not going to reward you for doing it because I just expect it. But if you don't do it, I am definitely going to penalize you with diminished satisfaction. And our research consistently shows like, we'll we'll we'll ask customers, how many contacts did you have to make to get your issue resolved? And then we'll take, all right, here's all the customers who had one contact resolution. And then we'll say, all right, of those customers, what was the percent that were overall satisfied or very satisfied with the with the company? And it's usually like 95 to 100%. Then we say, all right, of the people who said it took two contacts, overall, how many satisfied, very satisfied with the company? And it drops like 25%. And three contacts, it drops another 15%. And it goes to four contacts, it drops to only, you know, 20% being satisfied or very satisfied with the company.

Amy Dardis 27:15

And what that means I have a clarifying question. When you say contact, you mean like a a person as a contact, or like I sent one email and it got resolved in that email, or I talked to one person and I just talked to that person.

Speaker 27:30

How many times did I have to talk to the company? How many contacts between me and the company did it take? So, and and it gets this here's where it's nuanced as well. Because customers say, All right, I call you and I say, Hey, I have got a problem with my order. And you say, I'm gonna have to look into that and I will call you back. All right. So now I'm waiting for a callback.

Speaker 1 27:53

Yes.

Speaker 27:54

But I never hear from you. And so now it's a day, it's two days, it's three days, and I pick up the phone and I say, call you back and go, Hey, I you're supposed to call me back, you never did. In the customer's mind, that's the third contact. Even though it's only the second physically, the second contact was promised and not delivered. Okay. So the customer, again, with each of those, each of those, now I've got to prompt another contact. And now I gotta I gotta talk to this company again, and it's still not resolved. Their overall satisfaction with you as a company as a whole goes down. And so that's a penalty variable. If you had, if you had said, hey, one contact resolution, yeah, good. That's what I expected. But with each of those subsequent contacts, it goes down. Time-related dimensions of service are the same way. Look, you said you're gonna call me back. Number one, you didn't tell me when. So I don't know when to expect it. Is it gonna be today? Is it gonna be tomorrow? Is it gonna be next week? I just had that happen the other day. I called a company about a refund that they should have given me on a thing. And they're like going, well, we'll send this to billing and billing will take a look at it. And if you if you if you you deserve the refund, they'll take care of it. I'm like going, well, when's that gonna happen? Well, I'll just send it to billing. I'm like, no, no, no. Well, when's billing gonna take care of it? Is it gonna happen the next month? Is it gonna happen next week? Is it gonna happen tomorrow? Because that's an important question for me. Because I want to know what to expect. And I don't want to like think it's gonna be tomorrow if you're gonna tell me it's gonna be at least a week. These are the things where time-related dimensions of service are becoming more important. Customers don't want, they're they're not content with the, oh, it'll just happen. Oh, we'll just get back to you shortly in a bit. What's a bit? And so those are penalty variables, but it's the courtesy and friendliness. It's the empathy, it's that personal service

Penalty Vs Reward Variables

Speaker 29:50

relationship that of the the holy trinity of customer satisfaction, that's the only reward variable. So then let me, Amy, apply this to life. Because this is how as I began to learn this in my career, I began to go, huh? You know what? This is this is really no different than my relationship with my wife, Wendy. So, like in our household, most houses have their org chart, whether it's written down or not. And in our org chart, she is at the top of the food chain when it comes to the laundry room because she doesn't even want me in the laundry room. I only I'm on the chart, but at the very bottom, we're emergency privileges only. I'm on the top of the org chart when it comes to everything outside landscaping, lawn work, and getting the garbage and recycling bins on the curb. So in our neighborhood, the garbage and recycling comes on Monday morning. And my job is to have the bins there by 7:30 when the trucks might come. And some days they come at 7:30. I'm notoriously bad at this because I am, because it's the weekend, I'm not thinking about it. It's all a sudden Monday morning, I haven't even thought about it. And and Wendy hears the garbage truck coming down the street. He's like, Tom, did you put the bins on the curb? And I'm like, no. Penalty variable, right? I now because on Sunday, I'd set my my Apple Watch to remind me to put the bins out, and I had put the bin, got them all, put took the garbage recycling, got them out on the curb. I guarantee you, Wendy is not standing in the mud room going, I love you so much. Thank you. Thank you for putting the bins on the because it's not a reward variable. It's a penalty variable. She just expects me to do it, and if I don't do it, then I'm penalized. But if I'm on my way back into the house and I see that our rosebush is in bloom and there's this beautiful rosebud, and I quietly clip it and I take it into the house and I put it in a little bud base and I bring it into her office and I stick it in front of her, it never fails to get a oh, it's beautiful. Thank you. Reward variable. And so my business kind of tells me look, this is the same thing in life. If I know, if I know what the people my loved ones expect, and I know the things that are reward variables and penalty variables, then I can cater to those. And so one of the ways I've applied this, Amy, is because Wendy does the laundry and she does it faithfully every week. I like going, I never walk downstairs. And if I find her doing the laundry every week, I say, honey, thank you for doing the laundry. Thank you. I I just made it a habit. I will always say thank you. Likewise, she, when I come in from doing the lawn and I'm sweaty and dirty and gross and dripping with sweat, and she's she never fails to say, thank you for taking care of the lawn. And you know what? I've had people when I've shared this with them kind of go, well, that's stupid. Why, why should I thank my spouse for just something that they're expected to do? And I'm like going, wow, because I want to have a great marriage. Yeah. I want to have a great relationship. And I don't know about you, but saying thank you is about the easiest thing that I can do that will reap rewards in our relationship. And it's and just a couple weeks ago, I was reading online and there was a study of 40,000 married couples across the United States on this satisfaction with marriage. And what they reported was the number one differentiator between happy marriages and dissatisfied marriages were the words thank you. Couples who are grateful and say thank you to one another for the things you do to one another make the biggest difference. I'm like, well, yeah, I learned

Why Businesses Still Miss The Basics

Speaker 33:40

that a long time ago from what I do. So those are the universals. Resolve my issue, be nice, be courteous and friendly, and empathetic, and respect my time.

Amy Dardis 33:51

I mean, those those all three seem pretty simple, pretty straightforward, like nothing rocket science, not complicated. Why do you think so many businesses struggle with those things?

Speaker 34:01

I think because they, number one, they don't think about it. They don't necessarily know those things. And it's easy for businesses to get wrapped up in the in the emotional felt need of the moment, the tyranny of the urgent. What's the fire that we're dealing with? And a great example of that is like, okay, we have a, you know, we know that we had a product go out that isn't working. And so it the immediate thing of the moment is that we we've got this issue we have to deal with. And so we're constantly dealing with the momentary issue, and we're not looking at the larger strategic, how do we build an operation that is going to consistently deliver an exceptional, excellent customer experience for all of our customers, no matter who picks up that phone. And so it, yeah, it goes back to am I going to focus on what's important or I'm going to focus on what's urgent? And most businesses focus on what's urgent. And I find right now, in our current corporate culture, it's only getting worse because in our age of let's just start a company and sell it for a billion dollars, everyone's just focused on the short term. Everyone's just focused on let's just build it, get it going, and then find somebody who will buy it. And when you're doing that, you're not thinking long-term. You're not thinking longevity. And so the customer's the one who loses when that happens.

Amy Dardis 35:39

Going back to what people are motivated by, when you get into business, if if your motivator is people, like relationships, whether that's your customers or your employees, that changes how you look at everything versus I'm just building this business to make as much money as possible. And I guess I haven't talked to a whole lot of business owners where it's just like, I'm just in it for the money. But is that as successful of an approach as the ones that really do care? And then it's that, it's that trust, right? Like this sacred thing of trust. And it takes time to build.

Speaker 36:21

It absolutely does. And, you know, fortunately, the you know, the clients that I've enjoyed over the years, typically they hire Intelligentics because they do care about their customers and they do care about their people and they want to build something excellent that will last and be profitable over time. And they understand the long view of the investment that that takes. And so most of the time, not all the time, but most of the time, I've worked with really great people who really do care. But I have worked for clients that really, it really is about the money. And it's even more difficult when you walk into the C-suite and the lip service is to the people, but the entire operation is built around profit. And so, yeah, just simply it it becomes hypocritical. And that's that's where it's really hard. And but one of the things that I have enjoyed in my career, and in my book, I call myself the man in the middle because what my my career has allowed me is I come in and I I listen to the customers and I listen to the calls, and now I'm charged with helping this company improve. Well, what that means is sometimes I'm going in and I'm sitting down with the frontline agents. And when I do, they're like going, well, you don't got it. You know, management doesn't care about us. Management, you know, like they we've told them to fix this and it's broken, and they never do. And and I have to be like, look, to your point, okay, give me some trust here because your bosses wouldn't have hired us if they truly didn't care. They wouldn't be investing. And so I'm here talking to you, and I I promise you, I'm gonna talk to your bosses, but I need you to do the best you can and listen to me and help do a better job with the task that you've been given. But then I do have to go into the C-suite and sit down with the vice president of customer sales or the CEO and say, okay, you guys, look, the data clearly shows this. And when we listen to the calls, you got customers who are angry and you have not equipped your team with the tools and the knowledge they need to handle these situations. And if you don't fix this, you're going to alienate your customers and your employees, and you're never going to have the satisfaction levels that you're hiring us to help you with. So it's a it's a both and. You both have to take the data, you both have to address your piece of it if we're going to move the needle towards customer satisfaction. And yeah, and I'm glad to say we've had lots of clients like going, okay, well, uh we're gonna listen to you, Tom, because you're that's why we hired

Candor With Leaders When Data Hurts

Speaker 39:10

you to do this. And occasionally you have a client that's like, nope, no is it?

Amy Dardis 39:14

It seems like you would have to have a great deal of candor to be able to tell the client what they need to hear versus just what maybe they want to hear. Is that something that you've just you've kind of naturally been candid? Or did you used to get nervous or wrestle with it a little bit about what you needed to say?

Speaker 39:36

You know, I I'll be honest, yeah. I mean, coming into the business, uh it's it's some it's a place that I've matured over time. When I started in the role, I was really intimidated, especially when talking to upper management and executives. So I mean, I was a young man and I'd, you know, just I was hadn't been a part of business. And so, but fortunately, I had many years of of the our company's founder and and older colleagues who mentored me and were great examples to me in that. So that's something that's grown. But I would also say that when I'm working with data, there no, it just is what it is. And when you're dealing with truth, there's a piece of it that's like going, well, no, this is just true. And you're gonna have to decide whether you accept it or not. We had a sales team, and I taught this is a story from the book. The sales manager asked us to come in. They had a sales team of about 12 people, and they they both were to make cold calls, outbound cold calls. They all had a list, but then they also had inbound calls with customers calling in to place orders. So we did the assessment in which we went in and got a bunch of recorded phone calls. And one of the things that became clear is that all of these outbound cold calls that were supposed to be happening every day, they just weren't. I mean, they just didn't exist. The sales team were not making these calls. If they had been, the recordings would have been there, but there were no recordings. And we we, I mean, it's just they're not. So I sat down with the sales manager. I took him out to lunch, actually, and I said, Look, I just gotta tell you, this is not happening. And here's the report, but you need to know there are like no, no cold calls in this because your team isn't making them. And he's like, Well, that's impossible. I went, Well, I don't know what you mean it's impossible. He's like, Well, they give me a list every day of the calls they're making. I'm like going, well, if they really made those calls, they would exist as a recording. They're not. And he looked at me and said, This report cannot see the light of day. Like, my boss cannot see this report. And I said, Well, my my recommendation, I said, you know what? I know your boss and I know the owner of the company. And they're really good people and people of integrity. Now you have a you have a choice. I said, Yeah, you I'll give you the report and you can choose to bury it if you want. And I won't say a word. But I said, I know your boss, and I think that if you went into them and said, look, Tom and the intelligentics team have discovered something that I wasn't aware of, and I'm I'm embarrassed. Obviously, I had a blind spot. I didn't know this was happening, but now I do. And here's my plan. Here's how I'm gonna address it, here's how I'm gonna create some accountability, here's what I'm gonna do. And guess what? If they're not making cold calls today and I fix this problem and they start making cold calls, our sales are gonna go through the roof. I got a I got a plan in place. This is gonna, we're gonna fix this and we're gonna make it a win. I said, if you did that, I am I am convinced that your boss would go, okay, all right, make it happen. And he chose not to. He buried the report. We never work, never worked for them again, and he left the job about six months later.

Amy Dardis 42:55

Oh that oh man.

Speaker 42:56

So it yeah, I mean, you get those experiences where it's sort of like, I can, I can give you all the data you want, and I can t I can give you the path to success. Yeah, but you're the one that has to walk it. I can't walk it for you.

Amy Dardis 43:11

Yeah. And at the end of the day, you know that you you laid it all out on the table. You did everything you could, but you can't make their choice for them, nor are you responsible for what they choose.

Speaker 43:23

Exactly right. And I, you know, and that's happened. I'm glad to say it's not, it doesn't happen a lot, but I have, you know, multiple stories like that where the person who was responsible was so embarrassed by the results and thought that it would look so bad on them personally within the corporate culture that they chose to just, yeah, deep six the report and ignore it rather than actually use it to make things better.

Amy Dardis 43:50

Yeah. Yeah. Man, that's so hard. When you are looking at the clients that you're gonna work for, do you qualify your own clients?

Speaker 43:58

We do. And that's a thing that we've gotten. Better at over the years. I will say that typically what we'll do is do what we call a pilot project, where we'll say, okay, you think you want our services. Let's do this. We'll do, we'll do one customer survey to make a establish a baseline of satisfaction and what drives their satisfaction. And then using that, we'll do one quality assessment where we'll just take 100 calls or 300 calls and we'll do a one-time assessment based on what we know from your customers. And with the data from that, we will do a one-time follow-up training or round of coaching with your people. And it gives you the opportunity to experience every piece. And I guarantee you that the data that we're going to give you from this one-time assessment will, you're going to know where our customers are at, what they're thinking, and where we have opportunities to improve. You're going to find out where your team is inconsistent and has opportunities to improve their serve. We're going to actually equip them with tactics and service techniques to fill those gaps. So it's going to be worth the money you invest in this assessment process. And then you can decide if it's something that you want to continue on, and we can customize that for you, what that looks like going forward. Or you can do this one-time thing, walk away with the information and do what you want with it. And so that time, that's kind of a way for people to kind of get a taste and experience everything without making some huge long-term commitment. And I'm just glad that over the years, I mean, we've had we've had tons of clients that we've worked with, you know, five, 10, 15, 20, 25 years because they found value in it.

Amy Dardis 45:45

Yeah.

Speaker 45:46

And that's what I love.

Amy Dardis 45:48

That's so cool. So with all your time being in this business, and this is like to you personally, like as a leader, as an entrepreneur, what has been one of the best things and what has been one of the hardest things about being in business? Not even necessarily specific to your work that you do, but just as a as an entrepreneur?

Speaker 46:11

That's a great question. I haven't thought about it maybe from a such a general perspective. For me, the the best thing is the the clients that I've gotten to work with, the people that I've gotten to know, the relationships I've been allowed to build. And as someone who, and I didn't share this earlier, but in my book, I talk about the fact that I thought I was going to go into pastoral ministry. That was what I thought I was supposed to do. And and then God goes, no, you're supposed to be over here. But but over 30 plus years, guess what? I've gotten to walk with so many people, not just in their jobs, but in their lives. You know, when you when you coach people every quarter for 20 plus years, you get to know who they are. You talk about life and you get to talk about life stuff. And I yeah, I've had you know experiences to talk with people who have just gotten a terminal cancer diagnosis. I'm supposed to call coach them. I'm like going, okay, well, we're not gonna call coach. We're just let's just talk about this, yes, the fact that you've just been heard you're gonna die.

Amy Dardis 47:18

Yeah.

Speaker 47:19

You know, or the, you know, the sales guy who realized he hit the glass ceiling after he's given 30 years of his life to this company and has just been told you're never gonna advance any further. And he's breaking down balling uh in front of me because it's so devastating. And I just had the opportunity to work with him, just to talk to him as a human being in that moment and hopefully encourage him and help him. And so there's this these cool opportunities, like going, well, it's like I was in pastoral ministry, only it's through the business piece of it. So that's been the that's been the coolest thing, just just being part of people's lives. And in the greatest compliments that I've gotten, you know, I told you about that one sales guy, but I've had numerous people that are like going, hey Tom, you know, you've taught me a lot that has made me a better customer service representative or a better salesperson. But the things you've taught me has just made me a better human being because they're things that apply to my life and my relationships outside of work. And when I when I hear that, it's just like, thank you, God. That's why I do what I do. Because that's what that's what motivates me is people, not the money, not the profits. That's just the way I'm wired. So that's the best thing. The hardest thing for me has been yeah, the faith that's required to be in your own business. I don't know. I don't know where the money's coming from. I don't know if the clients are gonna stay with us. I don't know what projects we have coming down the pipeline next quarter. And and I also don't know, I mean, with one phone call, I could have a 20-year client who's been a bedrock of our annual revenues for two decades. With one phone call, they could just say, Yeah, we decided not to renew. And that's happened. I can't tell you how many times that's happened. And it's always like, wait a minute. Well, how are we gonna replace this income? How are we gonna replace this client? And that's the hardest thing. But yeah, I've just learned that looking back, I've never not gotten a paycheck. I've never not paid my bills. God has always been faithful.

Amy Dardis 49:34

Yes.

Speaker 49:34

I've had seasons where I had to maybe tighten the belt a little bit, but I've also had seasons where it was really, really good. And if you can just learn to be content and walk that

Entrepreneurship, Fear, And Practicing Faith

Speaker 49:45

walk of faith, which I've had to learn to do, and that's been a big spiritual lesson for me from my business, but it's been the hardest piece.

Amy Dardis 49:51

Do you ever feel like you've been through a really tough season in your business, not because you had bad business practices or something, but because God was using it to to intentionally shape you and just direct your heart towards him more instead of having your hope or your security be in your business.

Speaker 50:14

Oh my gosh. So, Amy, so this is this is a moment of synchronicity. So just this morning, my chapter day post was on 2 Samuel 4, in which uh David finds the Abner has died, and the people of Israel find out that that uh Saul's fine last son is dead, and everyone's scrambling, and everyone's in a panic. The only person who's not panicking is David. And it brought back to mind an experience from 2014. My wife and I had been trying to figure out what to do with our house. Our house wasn't working for us because we both work from home and it just wasn't, and we tried to make it work, and we hired an artist, how can we just refigure our house so it'll work for us? It didn't work, and God was just like, had made it very clear look, I want you to, I'm gonna open the door for you to build a house that will meet your needs. And so we bought the property, we hired the contractor, we helped design the house, and and this one day we're really excited because the earth movers moved onto the property to begin digging. And then the phone rang. And our largest, most long-tenured client, 23 years at that point, they were 63% of our gross annual revenues.

Amy Dardis 51:31

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 51:32

And they said, We're not renewing our and I called the contractor and I said, Please don't start digging. Give us the weekend to pray. Yeah. Yeah. And so there's these moments of panic in life. So this is it's a great example of like when where God was like going, okay, well, are you going to trust or do you want to grasp? And we did, we did some sincere praying, and it was a great example of exactly what David had to do. Like, look, I am not going to take the crown by seizing it for myself or by killing Saul's son or by honoring the fact that that Saul's son was assassinated. My kingdom is not going to be that way. I am going to, I'm going to, if I'm going to be king, it's going to be because God, I trusted God and He put me in that position, not because I took it for myself. And that was kind of the position we found ourselves in, like going, look, are we really going to trust or are we not? We've totally felt like God had led us to this point. And so yeah, facing the uncertain, we just said, okay, go ahead, start digging. We're just going to trust. And you know what? Looking back, that's 11 years ago. I don't even remember how we made it. I don't even remember how. I was like, I yeah, I know there were some unexpected clients that came in, and all of a sudden there's work there that wasn't there before. And it wasn't like one big thing. It was just a million little ways that God was faithful. And we, yeah, we built the house and everything was fine and and the company has continued to prosper. And yeah. So it was that season. I think that and God was, this was just a lesson. I said God going on, you know. Do you really trust me? Or you just trust your own abilities, you know, your own human efforts in this business.

Amy Dardis 53:14

And being in those situations is so scary, right? Because you're just like, oh my gosh, like how is this gonna work out? Like, just feeling that pressure and that intensity, but that's where the faith is, right? Like that really is. It's like if you think about all the stories in the Bible, like when the Israelites had left Egypt and they're at the edge of a sea, and they have an army coming at them, and you're like rocking a hard place, right there, like literally no way out.

Speaker 53:44

Yep.

Amy Dardis 53:44

And then God puts us in those positions in our life, and He's like, Are you gonna trust me? And you're like, Yes.

Speaker 53:50

So there's this thing that we learned from our local gathering of Jesus Father, like like 15, 20 years ago, and we had this whole series on it. It's called the chain reaction of praise. So you praise God in every circumstance, which activates our faith to pray powerful prayers, to overcome evil, and then do so when we learn to live and reign with Christ. But it begins with praise in every circumstance. And so Wendy and I have, we just embrace this thing. So we call them now chain reaction of praise moments. So when that phone call came in, literally that's the we have just trained ourselves. The first thing we're going to do is we're gonna get on our knees and we're gonna praise God. And we're we're just gonna just praise him for his faithfulness and his goodness and be grateful for all that he's done for us and acknowledge his goodness. And as we do that, it activates the faith to then go, okay, God, what's our next step and where are you leading us? And that's been a huge spiritual lesson for us over the years. And so now it's like, okay, first thing we need to do is praise. And in those moments, and it's revolutionized how we approach those circumstances.

Amy Dardis 54:59

When you thought you were going to be a pastor and then God called you into this, did you realize at that time that this that going into this path was a calling and it was an opportunity to I didn't know what an opportunity that it was.

Speaker 55:17

I the gentleman who's the founder of our company actually had had discipled me when I was in high school. So he had been a spiritual mentor. I trusted him, I knew him. The company is founded on biblical principles. The mission statement clearly says that we are. And so there was comfort in knowing that there's this whole faith-centric piece to this business. So I was going into something that I could really feel comfortable with and believe in. But I I didn't, again, I had no interest in business. I had I had zero experience in business. I was not educated in business. I took zero business classes. I avoided yeah, even in high school, I I avoided econ. And so it just didn't feel like a it was a natural fit. But I've had three experiences. In fact, I think this is another book someday. But I've had I've had like three clear experiences in my journey where I clearly in my spirit audibly heard God's voice.

Speaker 1 56:28

Okay.

Speaker 56:28

And I can only say that. The first one was when I was 14, and God said, You are going to proclaim my word. That was number one. The second time was after I had been offered this job. And I was praying, and I I'll never forget it. Because when you hear the voice, you can go back there in a moment. I was driving my blue Volkswagen 93 Fox up the driveway of our house, uh, to our house. And I'd been praying, am I supposed to take this job? And God's voice said, the spirit said, take this job, stick with it. You will be blessed. And I can't tell you how many times over the 30, 33, 32 years that I have had to, I've had to go back to that voice, to God's voice and go, okay, God, I'm gonna stick with this. I've I've been close to quitting many times for different reasons. And it always goes back, and I'm gonna go, okay, God, you told me to stick with this and that I would be blessed. And I am totally blessed. So I am not gonna give up on this until you give me leave or you lead me to something else. And and so it was, I think it was that having that call and that feeling like, okay, God didn't want me here for some for for a very specific reason or reasons. And that allowed me to kind of put my whole heart into it. And and I was, I have been blessed and learned so much.

Amy Dardis 57:52

Just stick your feet there. Yeah. When you decided to write the book, was that something that you'd kind of always had in the back of your mind? Or how did how did that idea come come to be?

Speaker 58:04

Uh yes. So I I'm a journaler. I love to journal and part of my creative process. And I was sitting at the our local pub here in Pella, Iowa, one afternoon and just having a pint and and I was journaling. And I'd been thinking about all of the like the spiritual lessons and life lessons that came from my career, that came from the things that I do. And I thought, I'm just gonna write all of these down and see how many I can come up with. And I just kept writing and writing and writing and writing. And I ended up with like over 30. I think it was like 32. And when I was done, I just looked at this list and I went, oh my gosh, like this is a book. Like it, this is a book. And this could be really, really cool. And that was over 10 years ago. I don't even remember the date it was, but it was over a decade ago. And then I was like going, okay, God, if this is supposed to happen, then it'll happen. And over the years, I actually had talked to a couple of publishers who were really, really excited about the idea. They loved the title and the idea, but it just was never the right time. The door was never quite the right thing. And then last year, you know what? Everything fell into place. It was the right time, it was the right moment, the right publisher. And so, like, on okay, here we go. And he did it.

Amy Dardis 59:29

And timing, I mean, God's timing is everything. Sometimes it's like he gives you a seed or a dream or a vision, only sometimes you have to just wait until that door opens.

Speaker 59:41

And I've experienced that time and time and time again, that it's all about timing. So that's one of one of my struggles, Amy, is that, you know, I get, you know, all of the hoorah executive coaches and inspirational business people out there that is going, well, just go for the gusto and make it happen and do the thing. And uh I think that there's value in that, but I think it also has to be balanced with, like even back to David, uh if I'm gonna be king, then it's gonna happen in God's way and God's timing. Yeah. And I'm not gonna try and make it happen. And I feel like I see so many people in both business and in life that are desperately trying to make things happen and then getting angry with God when it doesn't. And it's like going, well, is it is it is it God's plan or is it your plan? What are you what is it you're trying to make happen? And I so I've just learned along the way, like, look, I'm just gonna trust God's plan and try and be open and faithful to doing what I'm called to do. But yeah, try and find that balance of listening and grasping.

Amy Dardis 1:00:52

That is for me one of the hardest things in how the world says to do business, which is no one's coming to save you, you gotta make things happen, work harder, work longer, work smarter, grasp it. Whereas God's God's way of doing business is different. And there is a lot of waiting. And I've I have gone after things where I'm like, God, I know you gave me this vision. I know you told me to do this. Only when I tried to go and make it happen on my own, I had every door slammed in my face because while, yes, that was a vision he gave me, my heart and my character were not where what they needed to be. And so there is a process. But then also there were things that most of the things that I look back in my life that have happened, I'm like, I did not make any of those things happen. Like the doors that did open that led me to where I am, I'm like, I didn't even know to ask for those things.

Speaker 1:01:49

Yeah. And when I, you know, going back to the beginning, when when God, you know, as a 14-year-old, God was like, You're gonna proclaim my word. And I very clearly had God was given a gift for preaching and teaching. And that that showed itself immediately. I assumed that that meant, well, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be a go into pastoral ministry and I'm gonna be a pastor. And so I was two years as a youth pastor, three years as a senior pastor, and then did one year of parachurch ministry. And what happened in in those years was I, yes, I had this gift of preaching and teaching, but every other aspect almost of pastoral ministry like just shriveled my soul. Like, say, like Christian education committee meeting, and I will run screaming. I I want nothing to do with the administration. I want nothing to do with church politics, I want nothing to do with angry people complaining about, you know, you know, which version translation we're gonna have is the pew Bibles or what color the curtains are gonna be in the sanctuary. That just drives me crazy. Well, lo and behold, looking back at God's providence, being in this business for 30 some years, guess what? Every where I've lived and every church that I've attended over those years, I've been given the opportunity to preach and to teach. I still do, I preach like twice a month, usually at our local church. And, but I can do it and do the thing that God has gifted me to do and not have to deal with all the other stuff. Like I'm not on staff. I don't have to deal with all that stuff. We'll let the people on staff deal with that. So I get to use my gift and what God has called me to do, and it's a perfect fit. And I don't have to be a burden on the church, and they don't have to, you know, pay me a salary. I can just use my gifts as and I'm like going, this is what Paul did. This is why he made tents so that he could use his gifts and not be a burden on the church. And I'm like going, yes, I get it now. Uh and it's wonderful when when that that happens.

Amy Dardis 1:03:56

Yeah, and and you probably didn't make any of those things happen.

Speaker 1 1:04:02

No.

Amy Dardis 1:04:03

I mean, not at all. Yeah. Yeah. And yet he's also, you know, he opened the door for you to go into this call monitoring world and then used you to have all kinds of meaningful conversations with people that you would have never otherwise crossed paths with.

Speaker 1:04:21

Right. And people that otherwise I know they they would never darken the door of a church. And yet I get to have a relationship with them and and hopefully have a little influence in their life.

Amy Dardis 1:04:31

Yeah, that is so cool. So you said there might need be a next book. Do you uh do you have some thoughts brewing around that already?

Speaker 1:04:38

Yeah, I do. I've got I've actually got multiple ideas. Actually, the very next book I think is about it's kind of this paradigm I've been developing over the years in which we look at how God works. Like my ways are not your ways. Yes. And it's about life on four levels and how the world operates versus the way that God operates. And it just kind of helps people kind of go, that's why this is what God means, and this is why things aren't working out, or this is why politics is so screwed up, or you know, all of those things. So that's the next one. And then I've thought about doing a book that just is about the story of the times that I've heard God's voice and and what that's meant to me, and and what listening to God's voice has been in my own journey. I also have an idea, a book about the things that Christians always get wrong. Like, like, always get wrong. For example, we're always praying, and I hear this almost every Sunday. God, please be present. I'm like, wait a minute, time out. Scripture makes it very clear that that Jesus is the one holding all things together. He is He is the dark matter that that holds the atoms of this chair together. He is never not present. Is present. You can't go anywhere where he is not present. So why are we praying for him to be present? You know, just I've noticed several little things like that that sort of like can what that reveals to me is that we there is something in us that feels like he's not present. Well, that's certainly not true. But if we feel that way or think that way, then there's going to be a consequence to that thinking that isn't going to be healthy. So I just have a whole list of those things that I just thought would be a really fun book.

Amy Dardis 1:06:29

I think those all sound really great. Uh especially the, I mean, learning to hear God's voice. And like you said, even being in an entrepreneur and being in that season where you knew you were supposed to hold on. You knew you were supposed to stick with it. And had you not had that very clear, audible voice of God, you might have walked away when he wanted you to stay.

Speaker 1:06:54

Multiple times. And and Wendy multiple times, you know, had to talk me off the ledge and go, remember the remember what God promised you. Remember what he told you. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. So it it wasn't only just for me, but it became a tool because Wendy Wendy knew the promise and she knew the promise that it allowed her to be an instrument to hold me accountable and remind me of those things when I needed to. Because I guarantee you, if I hadn't heard that voice, I would have quit multiple times over.

Amy Dardis 1:07:28

Yeah, there's those things that carry us through. Honestly, I before I got married to my husband, my God was like, this is the person you are supposed to marry, like clearly. And then there were some seasons of our marriage where I'm like, I literally was holding on to that promise for dear life. Cause I'm like, we are going to work through this. Like we are going to push through. And then even in business too, there's there's definitely been some words that we have gripped with everything. I'm like circling. I'm like, God, you gave me a promise. Your word does not return void. I'm standing on this.

Speaker 1:08:05

I got it.

Amy Dardis 1:08:07

But then it's so cool. It is so cool to have that faith and then to be able to share that story. And I think that, I mean, that ends up being the most powerful thing of all is to be able to share that testimony of here's here was the the Red Sea and the army, and here were all of these things that were up against me. And I had this promise and I held on to it, and God showed himself faithful.

Speaker 1:08:31

Yes. And in my book, I talk about what I call the service excellence journey. So, like this client comes in and says, we want to have this culture of service excellence and consistently deliver it. Well, what I've learned over time is there's a journey that every company has to go on to get from point A to the promised land of service excellence. And it's a long journey. And it parallels perfectly the Exodus journey. That it's perfectly parallels it. There is a, there's a, you know, there is a road out, and there's this initial excitement and progress. And then there's this long slog of wilderness. And before you ever get to the promised land, and at each step of it, it requires a certain amount of faith to stick with it and to believe that we're gonna get there. And if the company, if the leaders don't have that faith and that trust, uh, they're never gonna get there. And I've had a lot of clients that never do. That don't. But I have clients that do. And when you get there and you realize you realize the promised land and the the blessings that come with having that, having a great service excellence system and people, everyone wins.

Where To Find Tom And Final Invite

Amy Dardis 1:09:45

Yeah, that's so good. That's so good. All right, so you have your book, which you uh anyone can get on Amazon, which is this call. And yes, this call may be monitored, Tom Vanderwell, and then your company, Intelligentics, if anyone needs help uh listening and understanding better what their customers are looking for. And then also your Wayfarer podcast, which tune in to your daily chapter a day.

Speaker 1:10:15

Yes, it's on all major platforms. So um I I do it on Spotify, but it's on Apple and and some of the others. So just search for my name, Tom Banderwell, Wayfarer, like the Wayfarer glasses that Ray Ban makes. That you'll just find it. It'll come up in the search engine. You can also go to Tombanderwell.com and my blog is there. Just look up at the top and it says the Wayfarer blog. And I also post the podcast uh link on every post every day. So you can pull up my posts from there. And if you'd like to read, great. If you would like to listen, it's available on the blog as well.

Amy Dardis 1:10:49

And I will also make sure to link all that in the show notes for this episode. So thank you so much for being here today. I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1:10:59

Thank you so much for having me. And I one more plug, I would say, hey, look, I don't know if you've noticed or not, but I love to talk. And so if if anybody is looking for a speaker for a Christian business conference or your church is doing a business conference, or you know, an industry event and you think, hey, this whole customer experience and call monitoring thing would work, please contact me. I would love, love to get in front of your audience.

Amy Dardis 1:11:23

Yes. They will be entertained, they will be given some insight and some encouragement. Yes, I 100% support that.

Speaker 1:11:33

Thank you so much. And it's been an honor, Amy, being on the show. And I hope let's do this again sometime.

Amy Dardis 1:11:38

I agree. Yes. All right. Well, that is all for this episode. I will see you guys next time.