Why Trust Is The Foundation

Amy Dardis 0:12

I'm your host, Amy Dardis. And today we are diving into authentic connection and understanding what that means and why that's important and how we actually get that in our relationships. And when we're hiring, when we're interviewing, when we're doing anything with people, we're building connection. We're building relationships. Everything we do in our life has to do with relationships, right? So whether we are hiring people as employees, we are working with people as clients or customers, we have spouses, we have friends, we have mentors, we have teammates, we have just the people we hang out with, the people who we choose to follow and to listen to and to be influenced by. It's all relationships, it's all connections. Like everything we're doing in our life is built on relationships. And those relationships are built on trust. And so we think about even Patrick Lencioni's five dysfunctions of a team, and he has the pyramid of what it takes for a team to be healthy. And at the very foundational piece of it, the very bottom tier that everything else is built off of is trust. And so we're looking for trust. And we say in business all the time, we want to do business with people that we know, like, and trust. And I truly believe that. I think at our core, we want to be in relationship with people we know, like, and trust. And it doesn't matter what kind of relationship we want to be in relationships with people we know, we like, and we trust. But then we think about sometimes the environments that we gif find ourselves in where we're trying to build trust and connection, but it's built in an environment of performance and perfection and pressure.

Interviews Create Performance Pressure

Amy Dardis 2:29

Like, think about the interview process. Like the interview process is two people coming together to determine if there is a connection there, if it makes sense to move forward into a longer-term, more committed relationship and exchange of ideas and time and resources. And we're looking to see like, is this worthwhile? Is this a good investment? Is this something that makes sense for the both of us to do? But the interview itself, this process of even getting to that point, it just creates an environment of performance. It creates an environment of pressure. Think about how nervous we are walking into an interview and just thinking, okay, what am I, what answers am I gonna say? How am I gonna say the right thing? How am I gonna get them to like me? And we overthink it and we get stressed and we get nervous. And it just the whole air of the conversation is is off and it feels

The Guard Comes Down On Zoom

Amy Dardis 3:36

forced. And I remember one time we were sitting in on an interview and we were interviewing a guy for a sales position, and it was over Zoom because he was in a different city. And so we had a couple people from our team and then the candidates, and we're asking him questions, and we're trying to get to know him, and it's like a first interview, and we're trying to break that barrier, we're trying to establish that moment of connection. And so we're asking questions, and he was saying good answers. It was, you know, we were liking what we were hearing, but it was just there was just something about it. We're like, okay, we're not getting to the real person here. Like, there's something about this where I'm like, that's not who he really is. I still feel the veneer, right? I still feel this guard that's up. And if I can't get past that guard, I I won't make a decision because I need to get past that guard. So I'm always looking for a moment in an interview where I'm like, okay, we we got past the guard. And so he'd shown up and he'd had a button-down shirt on and like a sport coat jacket, which we didn't see very often. It was very rare to see like an actual like overcoat in an interview. But he had it on that's we're like, man, like this guy's coming on strong, like he's trying to impress us, and he was very articulate. And then because we were on Zoom and we just kind of weren't getting anywhere, right? We hadn't broken the ice yet. And one of the interviewers, he was like, you know, you got like what are you wearing with the suit coat? Like, do you have like suit pants on with the outfit? And the guy was like, laughed finally. And he was like, No, I'm wearing basketball shorts. And that was the moment. Like, that was the moment that the whole interview changed, the conversation changed, everybody laughed. And we ended up hiring him, and he was amazing. I mean, it was it was such a good hire, but it was like that was the moment, right? Like that was the moment where it's like we asked this, you know, random question that could be construed as like a little, like, really, you asked that. But it was like, man, we we just we had to get past that that that facade of the interview and be like, who are you really as a person? And there's always that moment that we have with people, but it's the whole process of the interview itself can feel so uh performance-driven.

Perfection Kills Connection

Amy Dardis 6:26

Like, and we think that that's what we want. I think we go into it thinking that okay, I want the person with all the right answers, I want the person with the confidence, I want the person who can just spout things off and sound really good and not stutter and not pause and not trip over their words. But in reality, that's not who we are as people. We pause, we stutter, we trip over our words. But that doesn't mean that what happens after that isn't valuable and that there isn't good that comes outside of perfection. And I think about this a lot, even for myself. I've always been tempted to get stuck in this performance rut. Every time I turn a camera on, every time I even record this podcast, there's a part of me that wants to lean into this performance side of having all my thoughts and my notes together, writing it out, planning it out, which I use a script, I outline my thoughts so that I can say concise, I can communicate clearly, articulately, I can make sure it makes sense and I don't rabbit trail or wander off too far. But I've also made the mistake of going so far over to that side of wanting something to be perfect, that one I stop valuing good, I get stuck in this analysis paralysis. But then that's also the moment where the more I lean into that, the less room there is for connection and authenticity. Because

Storytelling Builds Authentic Brands

Amy Dardis 8:19

connection and authenticity and trust at its core happens through vulnerability. It happens through showing up just as we are. And I've spent years leaning too far into teaching and having to come off as saying the right thing and being an expert in the field and the whole time wrestling internally because I'm like, this isn't who I am. I want to talk about other things. I want to talk about authenticity and connection and faith and people and purpose and wiring. And here I am talking about SEO or marketing strategy or websites. And even coming and starting to build clear authentic brands and getting into this podcast and this interview, it has been a practice of turning on the microphone and trying to communicate and convey in an authentic way and forcing myself to be more vulnerable and be more messy than I would naturally want to show up as because I've been realizing in my own life that we connect more through story than we do through strategy. And I have always wanted to veer the other way. I've always wanted to go for like strategy, strategy, strategy. Here's this teaching, here's this framework, here's the five steps on how to do it. Versus like, here's the story of what I went through to figure this out and all the mistakes I made along the way. And here's how I got to this, and here's how I experienced this. Because when I share, man, I'm terrified. Like I'm like thinking, I'm gonna share this and no one's gonna care, or I'm gonna share this and people are gonna judge me or reject me. Or no one really cares about my story. So I should just get to the meat and potatoes of the big takeaways and forget about the actual personal side of it. Only after years of doing that, I found that that wasn't working. That was that was just like a recipe for disaster. And it was the the times where I leaned in and I did something that's scary. And I I put myself in that uncomfortable position of saying, here's the story, and here's what I learned through this process. And if this helps you or benefits you in any way, then that's awesome. Like I hope that you're able to find your own revelation or your own aha moments through just hearing a story versus me always feeling like I need to teach something or have it all figured out. And this podcast even has been me going through a process of figuring out, okay, how do I talk about interviewing and hiring and people and wiring and asking questions and helping business owners and leaders hire better, create a better process, but at the same time not take away from the authentic side of it, the personal side of it, the journey of it, of knowing that it's not just a matter of how to, it's not just a matter of a step-by-step or a process. It's understanding why do we do this at the core and connecting with people in a real way to say that we don't always follow people just because their teaching is good. We follow them, we listen to them, we're influenced by them because we feel like we know them, like them, and trust them. And while I cannot control, you know, how you feel about me as a listener, I can be intentional about trying to show up authentically and sharing that, yes, I care about interviewing and hiring and process, but the reason I care about all of those things has to do with people. It has to do with relationship and what I believe about God and how he wired us and how he created us and that he created us wonderfully and uniquely, and he's given us specific gifts and he created us to work, and he created us to be in relationship with people and in relationship with him and to live a life that is filled with love and joy and peace and you know, the fruits of the spirit because we're connected to him. And I think about this tie between our time and our wiring and work and just the weight and the burden that I see people have and that I have had, that I have experienced in spending my time at work in the wrong roles or feeling like I was called to something different, and still showing up to a job or a position or a project, and just feeling that internal restlessness of knowing like this isn't this isn't meant for me. Like I'm supposed to be doing something different with my time, but this is what I know, and this is the rut that I get stuck in, and I want to break free from that, and I want to help other businesses not get stuck into those positions so that they can help people not get stuck into those positions of being in the wrong role, of doing work that doesn't align with their natural gifting and their natural wiring. And going back to conveying this in a valuable way, and I I hope that you listen to this podcast and and think about hiring differently. I hope that you have some valuable takeaways where you're like, oh man, never thought about it like that. Or, oh, I'm gonna add this to my process, or I'm gonna ask questions differently now, or I'm gonna look at my employees through a different lens. You know, I I certainly hope that there's there's insight and value that comes from that. But at the same time, I think even more importantly than that is me wanting to show up and just be like, this is just the path that God put me on, right? This these are just the experiences that I've had through business and through branding and through messaging and through clarity. And a lot of these things have I've done wrong, like authenticity and connection I've done wrong, or lacking clarity, I've done wrong. And it's oftentimes it's our biggest points of pain and struggle that become the thing that you know we end up being able to share about to say, like, this is where I was, this is what I struggled with, this is how I learned this, this is the change that it made in my life. But sometimes sharing that is ugly, it's messy, it's imperfect, it's and in the entrepreneurial world, in in sales, in podcasts, in interviews, in doing videos, it's like there's just this unspoken pressure that you have to show up and it has to be perfect, and you have to have it all figured out and you have to deliver the perfect pitch, because if you don't deliver the perfect pitch, they're not gonna hire you. And if you don't say the right thing exactly, they're gonna walk away or they're gonna cast you off.

A Messy Sales Call That Worked

Amy Dardis 16:54

But a lot of times the opposite happens. I remember one time I was this is years ago, and my kids were still young, and I was working from home, and we're building, like in the early years of building our web design agency, and I had newly stepped into like the sales and marketing role, and my kids are two years apart, and so I think they're like one in three, you know, enough that you can't just be like, hey, mom's on the phone. And they understand definitely not. They're just like, no, I want what I want right now, and I don't care if you're on the phone. And so I was on the phone with a client doing a sales call. Like we're talking, like I was pitching them a website, and in the background, you hear my kid just screaming and crying. And I was just so embarrassed. And I was like apologizing to the client. And I'm like, I'm so sorry. Like they were supposed to be napping right now because they scheduled a lot of my phone calls like during their nap time. But that was just the day where the kid didn't want to nap, and he was really loud. And I was like, got off the phone, and I just was like, oh my gosh, like that's not happening. I totally bombed that one. The client ended up saying yes, and he told me specifically, he said, I'm saying yes to you because I heard your kid crying in the background, and I'm in that season too. I know exactly what that feels like. I have young kids at home, I'm also running my business, and I I've I know how that feels. And I was like, oh my gosh, like this moment where you know, my kids crying in the background, and I shouldn't have got this sale. And I he did because there was that connection, because there was that authenticity, because it was just like, yes, we're both humans, we are both parents, we are both entrepreneurs trying to run our businesses, and I can relate to where you have been.

When Playing It Safe Bombs

Amy Dardis 19:14

And sometimes, like, we'll be in the sales process or meeting someone or leading, and it's easier to want to stay safe. It's easier to want to just kind of like go with what we know. I remember I was leading an entrepreneur small group. So we're talking about faith, we're talking about business, and some groups we were like more in the word, and then some groups we were more talking about some business principles and doing some teaching. And I was in a very stressful season of life, and work had been very demanding. And I had been working on this, this new idea and this new teaching that I was like very excited about. And I felt like that would be a valuable thing to teach the business group. And so I'd had that in the back of my mind as like, oh, that would be a good topic for one of the groups one night. But I'd also had this story of Joseph on my heart of him getting a dream and you know, then being sold into slavery and spending years in jail before the dream ended up coming true. And I felt like God was like, you need to talk and about this story and how it relates to business. And so I was feeling led and feeling convicted to go and share that story and lead with that and study it and kind of facilitate conversation with the other entrepreneurs in the group. But because work had been busy, I didn't have as much time to prep and study for that as I wanted to. And so I defaulted to the topic that I already had prepped and ready to go. And I went and I presented it, and it bombed. And it wasn't that the ideas weren't valuable or helpful, but there was no connection. There was no authenticity, there was no storytelling. And instead of me being willing to do something that was messy, do something that was unprepared, do something that I felt like God was like, hey, you need to do this. I leaned more into this is what's safe, this is what I know, this is what I can deliver without messing up. And that decision haunts me in a lot of decisions that come forward now. Even sometimes when I do a podcast and I'll think, okay, I want to teach on this and I want to teach on this and I want to teach on this. And then God will be like, no, but I want you to share about your struggle with these idols in your life. Or I want you to share about your struggle with authenticity. Or I want you to share about this journey that you've been on. And I'll be like, but God, that's not pretty. That's not all put together. That's not perfectly packaged into this beautiful framework. People can't take it and go apply it. And he'll be like, this is what I'm asking you to do. And I'll feel this pressure and I'll feel this like restlessness in my gut and in my soul, and this tension rising where it's like, I know I am not gonna feel better. I'm not gonna be able to do anything or move on until I do this, until I turn this mic on and I start recording and I talk about this

Sharing Without Needing Validation

Amy Dardis 23:16

thing. And in the back of my mind, sometimes I'll be like, is this making sense? Am I rambling? Am I going off in different directions? But then at the end of the day, I'm just like, man, I'm just trying to trust that it's better to just take the risk. It's better to be authentic. Cause that's where that's that that is where that trust and connection happens. And every time I've had to be authentic, or that sounds terrible. Every time I've had to be authentic, learning to be authentic is so uncomfortable. It's and I think it's getting more comfortable. I think I'm developing that muscle more where it's not nearly as terrifying as it used to be. But I also see my own tendencies to want to shift back into what I think is safer or more socially acceptable. And I recognize this internal battle that I have every time. And it's not so forceful as much as it was before, where it's like I've kind of done it enough now. You know, I've experienced the other side of forcing myself to share the real stories and share authentically that now when I do it, it's it's coming easier. But the other part of it too has been I want to share authentically sometime and then be validated for it. I want to be affirmed, I want to be encouraged. And I think God in his grace, oftentimes he gives me the right amount of encouragement, but sometimes it's not as much encouragement as I want because then my heart needs to do it for the right reasons. My heart needs to learn how to share authentically for out of obedience, and because I know that that's what I'm called to do, and I know that it's important, and sharing authentically isn't about the outcome. It's not about the effect that we see or the impact that it makes. And oftentimes I've had experiences where I've shared authentically and I've done something uncomfortable and I've put myself out there and I've gotten nothing in return. Like just crickets, just silence. And at first that was really discouraging, but over the last few months I've been learning. I, oh God, this is what you're teaching me. You're actually teaching me to do this, not for the outcome, because that's actually not what matters at all. It's about being willing to share out of obedience, out of surrender. And because that's where connection starts. And I don't want to get in the habit of sharing only when I get something in return. And so, like I'm, you know, going through this podcast and I look at some of the different episodes that I've done. And, you know, there's a whole series on idols that I did back in December of sharing just my own journey as an entrepreneur and the things that I've struggled with in putting God first in my life and just learning how to go through this. And then there's topics on brand clarity and this journey of finding my own authentic brand identity after finally one doing it wrong for so many years, experiencing the consequences of that. Now being clear on my brand and seeing this connection between my identity as a person and how that influences my business, instead of allowing what's happening in my business to influence me and my identity or my value as a person and just knowing who I am in Christ. And then there's episodes where we talk about, you know, asking questions and interviewing and natural wiring, because that was also part of this journey of God one, revealing my own natural wiring in me, my own passion for asking questions and being able to pull out patterns and kind of create relationship and connection with people and find see their natural wiring, even when maybe they can't see it for themselves. And the parallels between spending 15 years doing that for brands and businesses, so I could help them tell a marketing message on their website. And then realizing that the same principles actually applied to people. And it had been something I'd been doing my whole life. And so then when I started getting into interviewing and hiring, I was like, oh my gosh, like I love this. This is I care about this more than I've cared about any of the website stuff, any of the marketing stuff, because this comes back to my first love, which is people, and just having this heart for people and to us not waste our life or waste our gifting, and just having this deep understanding of our own value and identity, and having a sense of purpose and direction in that. Knowing that like you're not lost. God has a plan for you. Regardless of what season you're in, no matter how hard or difficult it might seem right now, it is for your good. He will work it for your good. And knowing that he didn't mess up when he made you. And it's not a matter of wishing you were something else or being frustrated because you feel like you're not enough. It's about understanding how does your brain work, how does your mind work, what are you passionate about, and how can you see that in yourself, develop it, and know that God's been, He's been developing this in you all along. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean that other people haven't seen it. And it doesn't mean that God hasn't already intentionally been orchestrating these things in your life throughout the process. But when we start to recognize it, when we start to be able to see it for ourselves and then align that with how we spend our time, one, it changes just how we see ourselves, and we can see ourselves through eyes of grace and love and know that we can spend our time contributing in a more meaningful way, not only towards our work, but our relationships and just even how we feel about ourselves. And then when we come into this like place of authenticity and and connection, we can embrace who we really are. We can we can be willing to be more vulnerable, we can be willing to let that guard down and share a little bit more and break that ice. And the more we're we do it, the the easier it gets. I don't, I don't know if does it ever get easy? Like, is there ever a moment where you're just like, yeah, this is this is totally fine. I'm very comfortable with this. Or is there always this little bit of like resistance and hesitation to be like, oh, I should share this. I should, I should share this story. And and then coming back to that, right? Of like being authentic and being vulnerable and creating connection in order to build trust just comes back to sharing.

Leaders Must Go First

Amy Dardis 32:02

And so I like train hiring managers to be like, okay, one, don't expect your candidate who's nervous and under the microscope to come in and just like share authentically. You actually have to lead that, you have to break that down, you have to, you have to set the tone for that. But it's like when we can actually lead with that, like that's the one behavior we can control, right? Is we can control what we do. And so, as a leader, as a hiring manager, as a person, as whatever relationship we're engaging in, if we can be willing to take the first step, we can be willing to make the first move. We can be willing to lead with vulnerability, lead with sharing, lead with being uncomfortable. If we can sign up for that first, it has a ripple effect. It can change the entire dynamic of a room.

A Brutal Business Story Breakthrough

Amy Dardis 33:08

I remember years ago, I was in, we went to a web agency conference and we were learning about just how to run an agency and models and how to price things. And we were eating it up because we had never been in business before. We knew nothing about running an agency. And so we we learned a lot of valuable things there. And we had had a really, really rough start. And I our I think it was my our first time at like everyone getting together. It was like the in-person conference, but digitally there was a mastermind community mentorship program that we'd been a part of. And so we went there, and I felt convicted to share our story. And I remember writing it out, and I felt that pressure. I felt this like gripping inside of me. Like, I'm not gonna be able to breathe or think about anything else until I share this. And they had asked for people who wanted to come up and share their experience with this group. And so I felt this, like deeply I felt this. And I was like scribbling it out on this like piece of notebook paper, and my hands were just like sweating. And a couple people got up and you know, they shared their story and they shared their success story, and it was really good. And then I got up there, and this was the first time I'd ever, I think, done public speaking voluntarily for myself. That wasn't like a presentation, like in like a public speaking class or a play or a drama. You know, this was like on my own terms, and it was my story, and I'd never, never done that before. And I'd never like I hadn't done that with my husband yet. And so he had no idea what I was doing, and I didn't know if he was gonna be okay with it, but I just felt like I have to do this. And so I got up in front of the room, and I there was probably like a hundred people in the room, and I shared our story of the last year, which had been brutal. It had been one of the hardest seasons and years of our life, and it had been very ugly. I mean, we we had been so broke, and I'm talking like overdrawn personal accounts, overdrawn checking accounts, not enough money coming in, debt rising. I remember one time we had to go pick up a check from a client, and our accounts were overdrawn, and we had no gas in the tank, and we were scrounging in our house for like change, like dollar bills, spare coins to get $3 worth of gas, which this was before gas prices were like $5 a gallon. Enough gas to put just enough to drive to the client to pick up the check so we could deposit it. And you know, it was like that. That was how bad it was at the beginning of the year. And so I'm I'm telling this story and I'm like crying as I'm telling it. And I'm talking about like how ugly things were, and then how we had started just applying some of the principles that we were learning about recurring income and pricing things, and and we had 100% turned our business around within a year. We'd started at making like not even $2,000 a month at the beginning of the year to by the end of the year, we had had our first six-figure year and we were making $10,000 a month, which was huge. Like that was just a huge, huge turning point in our business and in what we had been able to do. And I was so scared to get up and share that story. But I was crying, my husband was crying, and there were other people in the room crying because they had been having real crap years too. Like we weren't the only ones who had felt that failure and that struggle. And it wasn't that I was teaching them anything, it was just that like I was sharing a struggle that they felt, that they knew, that they're like, I've been here. Like I like you're putting words to things that I have felt that I've never wanted to admit. And afterwards, like people were coming up and they're like, Thank you for sharing your story. And I was it was just uh it was just a reaction that I just never expected. I was really just like blown away by that because it was terrifying to do and the whole the rest of the conference was different after that. I mean, and I don't think it was just for me. I think for other people. I think it just being willing to lead with vulnerability then helped there be other conversations about vulnerability. There were there it was other conversations about like the real stuff, like about what they were struggling with as a as a business owner that maybe before there wasn't that space to. And that was that was really cool to

The Cost Of One-Sided Vulnerability

Amy Dardis 39:01

see. Now, let me tell you the other like bad side of this is I went and I did that and I saw that, and then that sparked in me this desire to speak and to share. Only then I went about it the completely wrong way, and I stopped leading with story, and I stopped leading with vulnerability, and I got the formula all wrong, not that say it's a formula, but I just but then I just was trying to teach and trying to explain and trying to be an expert instead of just trying to be authentic. And I mean it that took years and years and years, and then some really hard relationships and breakdowns of I'd spent years trying to connect with people by asking a ton of questions and trying to understand them and and 100% trying to establish a real relationship. Only I never shared first. I never was vulnerable. I was always trying to get other people to be vulnerable. I was always trying to like dig into their story out of a genuine fascination, but I didn't share, I didn't lead. And I ended up realizing that all these relationships that I had spent a lot of effort trying to build it, it had it it hadn't worked. Like I they I hadn't built real relationship, I hadn't built real connection because I had failed to connect, I had failed to share, and that was pretty devastating. Like that was pretty devastating to go through and realize that I had tried so hard for so long, and the reason it hadn't worked was my fault. It was on me for not having been willing enough to just share who I was and through story, just through what was going on. Cause I was always, and I thought I was like, oh, I'm making it about them, or I'm, you know, just being interested in them, but there was no connection happening. It was only one-sided, it was not two-sided. And that realization was a huge catalyst for this uh authentic journey that I'm on of realizing, oh wow, like I have I have to lead with authentic authenticity, and that means being vulnerable. And in order to connect, it means just sharing the real stuff and sharing the ugly stuff, and then forcing myself through that publicly even, because doing that on a podcast where other people can actually listen to that journey and what that looks like. But then actively just being conscious of it and aware of it in how I'm building relationships now, how I'm leading now. And man, it's been really cool. I gotta tell ya. It's been really cool. It's been terrifying, it's been uncomfortable, there's been a lot of wrestling. But I wouldn't change it for anything because there's been connection that's happened that I never would have imagined. There's been insight and revelation that's happened for me, for conversations, like for other people and conversations that we're having, that I'm not I'm not manipulating, I'm not trying. All I'm doing is just being like, okay, God, I feel like you want me to share this story or share this lesson, so I'm gonna do it. And then seeing someone's reaction or hearing someone's reaction to that, and then just being blown away by that, and just being like, wow, this is how it works. And then seeing, like, okay, how can we pull that into all the relationships? How can we pull that into a sales relationship? How can we pull that into An interview relationship? How can we pull that into a working relationship? How can we build a life that's filled with relationships that are built on trust and connection and vulnerability? How do I how do we fill our lives with relationships with people that we know, like, and trust? And realizing, like, okay, it's it starts with I have to be willing to do this. I just as uncomfortable and as scary as it seems, but then continuing to share,

Building Trust From The Start

Amy Dardis 44:35

right? And I remember when I left Montana and God called us to Alaska. The thing, like the thing that God told me, he was like, you will share this story. You will share your story. And I don't think I didn't fully understand what he meant at the time. Like I thought he meant, you're gonna share your story of how you moved from Montana to Alaska, which I do and I have, but I didn't realize the depth of what he really meant by you're gonna share your story, you're gonna share this story. It's like it's this story of all these things you're learning, of all these ups and these downs. You're gonna share it. And even as I meet new clients and I meet new businesses and I meet new leaders, it's changing the way I show up. It's changing the way I try to even set the foundation for a relationship. Cause I'm like, man, I don't, I don't want to build a relationship that's not authentic. And I don't want to get into that habit because I've gotten into those habits where I've spent so long not being authentic and getting stuck in those ruts and then having all these relationships that were built off of a false foundation. And realizing that all the time and effort that I'd spent investing into those relationships didn't really go anywhere because it just wasn't built off of something. It wasn't built off of that foundational trust piece to begin with. And so now, you know, kind of a fresh start, fresh area over the last year and a half, being like, okay, every person I meet is a it's new, it's a fresh, clean slate page. How do I just do this right the first time? And that's what I think a lot about interviewing and hiring is just it's the first time to start a relationship. It's the very beginning. And that's where the foundation is being built. And so it's like, how do we create a strong foundation of trust? And how do we do it so that when we get into it, it's built on something real. And we're and we are stripping off the the performance and the expectations and the perfection, and we're getting into real territory so that when we start to work together, like we're gonna like each other, we're gonna know each other, we're gonna trust each other. And and it starts at the beginning. And if we don't get the beginning right, it really, really, really makes everything else that comes after way harder. It's like if we could just avoid that part of it and just start it off the right way the first time, we could, we could just save ourselves so much time and headache and money expenses by getting it started off on the right foot.

Closing Thanks And Farewell

Amy Dardis 47:56

So that's all I have for you today. If you made it this far, I really appreciate you being here. I appreciate you uh joining me on this somewhat roller coaster of a journey sometimes. And if you enjoy this podcast, thank you. Thank you so much for listening. And I will see you next time.