Why Verification Beats Gut Feel

Amy Dardis 0:10

Welcome back to the Building a Clear Authentic Brand Podcast. I'm your host, Amy Dardis. And in today's episode, we are talking about 10 ways to gain a better understanding of a candidate before offering them a job. Because when we're going through the interview process, our goal is to make sure that we understand the real person that we are hiring someone who is aligned with both our culture as well as the role itself. And so a principle I highly encourage you to adopt is never hire someone that you are not a hundred percent confident about. Now, there's always a variable when it comes to people, but we want to get as close to confident as possible instead of making an offer where we feel this hesitancy, we feel this uncertainty, and we're like, do I like them? Do I not like them? How do I feel about them? Do I think I can do the job? And, you know, there's just that internal battle that you face instead of that certainty of like, you know what? I felt really good when I talked to this person. I felt like there was a connection. I felt like there was good conversation. And we want there to be those confident feelings, but the important thing is verification. What proof do we have that verifies how we feel? What proof do we have that verifies this confidence? Now, the two things we have to verify are do they have the capacity to excel in the role? And do they have the character alignment to thrive within your company? And that's why I'm a huge believer in always doing two interviews, one for that capacity and then one for that character alignment. And if you want to dive deeper into the process, I recommend you follow why we do two interviews and how to structure them. You can check out episodes 36, 37, and 38. But sometimes, even after we do two interviews, there can still be a little bit uncertainty, which means we need a little bit more verification. So instead of just offering the job to, you know, quote, give them a chance, that's risky, that's expensive. And more often than not, it doesn't pan out. And the second they enter your company, the second they become an employee, you are so much more invested in needing that to work out instead of just taking a little extra time to gain a little bit more understanding, to gather a little bit more information so that we have a better verification. So just keep this word in the back of your mind always is we are verifying, like we are going through a verification process. So if you've done the screening call, if you've done two interviews and you're still not sure what you want to do, one I'm just gonna mention right here, more often than not, it's a no. And we just want it to be a yes because we feel that pain or we liked some things about them, but there were some red flags that we then ignored. And if you want to dive into red flags, check out episode 41 where I talk about the red flags that I personally don't ignore. But we have options, like we have options on what we can do, and so I'm gonna walk you through 10. And most of these don't take that much extra time, they actually take a little bit more effort, but this little bit more effort up front is so worth it compared to the cost of a mishire, and that's what we're trying to avoid. We are trying to avoid mishires at all cost. So, what are the 10 things that you could do? So, number one, we could do an additional interview with a new perspective. So, in this case, we're adding another conversation, but we're going to change the dynamic. So, we've already done interview one and interview two. We had the same people in on those interviews. So now if we choose to do a third interview, we are going to bring in a different person into the room. So whether that's a coworker, an employee, someone who just has a really good reading on people, someone who just can bring a different feel, a different perspective, a different approach into the room, we're gonna shake things up a little bit. Because if we just keep repeating the same things the same way, we're not gonna see what else comes to the surface. So when we bring in a new person, it's gonna change the dynamic of the room, of the of the people in there. You're gonna see how that candidate responds to them, to their approach, to their different personality, to their different communication style. And by bringing in that extra person, you're going to have another perspective who's gonna see things that maybe you missed in the first and second interview. So, second thing we could do is we could do an off-site interview. So, this is where we're gonna change the environment. So we're gonna keep the people the same, but we're gonna get out of the interview room type situation. So I recommend going off site, grab coffee, grab lunch, grab drinks, grab dinner. And what we want is an informal setting, and we want to change that environment so we can see how do they show up when it's different. Because interviews tend to be very formal. They can be very uncomfortable, very tense, people can be very nervous. But when you when you go to somewhere like, hey, let's grab coffee or let's grab lunch, you're sharing a meal with someone, there's other people who are there not for work purposes. There is wait staff, there are people who might come up and recognize you and say hi, and maybe there's a little sidebar conversation. It's a very different environment that's going to facilitate different connection. And then when we're doing this off-site interview, it's not even just about what we talk about, it's about what we're observing in the process. So we're looking at this person's social awareness, we're looking at their conversation ability, we're looking at how they treat the staff around them. Do they open doors for people? Do they put their napkin in their lap? Do they order water? Do they say thank you? You know, what are the actions that you're observing within their behavior? Because that is going to tell you so much about a person versus just what they choose to share with you. So that's a super helpful environment and a different lens to look at someone through. Now, another lens that we could look at somebody through is by having them do a personality assessment. Now, personality assessments are not about just trying to box people into something, but it is just about gleaning some information that maybe you weren't able to through your own conversations. And there's a couple of things that can happen here. So, one, it's just another lens. Some personality assessments that I really like are the disc, the enneagram, and the strengths finder. I think you see different motivations, different thought patterns when you look at all three of those, actually. So you could you could have someone do all three, or you could just pick one. They're all going to tell you different things. Now, we're going to look at what the results of the personality test says. However, we're also going to observe this person's reaction and actions towards this process. Now, we're asking them to do something. So we have an opportunity to observe their actions. So, how willing are they to do this test? Is there some hesitation, some concern? Are they on board? Are they enthusiastic? How fast do they get it done? Is this something that you email off to them and you're waiting for them to send it back? Are they doing it within a day? Are they doing it within a couple days? Do you have to follow up and remind them to take that test? We are looking at how their behavior actually shows up within this process of us saying, okay, now I need you to do something. Like I need you to perform in a certain way. And it's another opportunity for us to analyze does what they say about themselves match how they show up? Another lens that we can look at is doing a skills assessment or a live working session. So if this is great to be able to verify capacity. So looking at do they have the skills, the abilities, the potential, the wiring, the way the brain thinks, does it align with what is required in the role? So this you could do something where you send them a link and they fill out a skills assessment test and it grades them. Or you could do a live working session where you just take 30 minutes of their time right there in the room, which more and more, this is even more important because with AI and access to technology, it's just harder and harder to verify what is someone's organic work versus what has been influenced by AI. So I do recommend doing the live working session or having them do the skills assessments there in front of you or via a team's share screen so you can actually watch them as they're answering the questions and kind of seeing how they work through different problems. But again, we're looking at not only like what are the results of the test, but we're looking at how do they react when we're asking them to do something. We're looking at their actions and their behavior. And actions always speak louder than words. I think it's great in an interview process to ask your candidate to do something. Whether it's a personality test, a skills test, a walkthrough, a tour, provide you references, record a video. I mean, what I answer some open-ended questions, do a survey. I mean, we want them to be willing to put in the effort that goes beyond just showing up for an interview. So a fifth thing that we could try is we could do a tour. We could actually walk them through our environment. So whether that's walking them through the office or our operations, our facilities, it's giving them a bigger picture of what's involved within the role and what your company does. I think tours are great regardless whether it's for a candidate or it's for orienting a new employee on board. It's really important to let them see how all the different pieces work together. So how the admin department operates, how the operations department operates, how the sales department operates, what it looks like to engage with different customers. And as you walk them through this tour, again, you are noticing and observing their behavior. What is their level of curiosity? Are they asking a bunch of questions? Are they engaging in conversation with you as you walk around? Are they proactively engaging with people, with your other team members as you walk around and introduce them? What questions are they asking? What are they noticing? What are they not noticing? Do they seem interested? Do they seem like this is a waste of time? Do they come across as arrogant? Do they come across as humble? Like just doing a quick 20-minute walkthrough of how you operate as a business is gonna give you a better picture of who they are. But it's also going to help them picture themselves in the role, which helps them better determine: is this something that I want to do? If I say yes to this job, now I have a better idea of what I'm saying yes to. I've seen it, I can imagine it, because just hearing you talk about it is not enough. So this is something that I would highly recommend you do regardless, because it's it's amazing how much more we can imagine and immerse ourselves in when we can see something, when we can hear it, when we can talk about it, versus just being told about it. Now you have the tour option, but then you also have a meet and greet option. So maybe you're doing this on your tour. Basically, you're being very intentional about introducing them to your employees. And when we do this, we're gonna pay attention to two things. So we're gonna pay attention to one, how do they react with your people within these meet and greets? Is are they striking up conversations organically? Are they asking questions? Are they pretty reserved and guarded? Do they seem shy? Do they seem withdrawn? Are they able to relate and crack jokes and be comfortable? Do you see a genuine connection happening or does it feel a little bit tense and awkward? And then the second thing we're paying attention to is what do our team members feel like after a word? They have instincts too, that, and they are the ones who are going to have to be working with this new team member. So understanding how everybody interacts and whether it was felt awkward or forced versus it feeling natural and organic is going to determine what the first few weeks or months with this new candidate might feel like. So if you have your people come up to you afterward and they're like, hey, that guy was great. Is he gonna be working with us? Can't wait to have him join. Or maybe they're gonna come up to you and be like, you know, that person came across as like kind of arrogant or kind of withdrawn or kind of rough around the edges, or maybe you weren't looking and they made a joke that felt inappropriate or they said something derogatory, like we're creating a natural organic environment of what the day-to-day is actually like. And if you even leave them alone with your team members for a little bit and you walk away, and in their mind, their guard drops a little bit because they're like, oh, well, the decision maker isn't here. So therefore, what I really think or what I really say or how I really act might come out a little easier when the boss is not around and you can get a better feel for who is this person really, and then trust your team. Trust what they tell you. Now, in addition to that, we could also do a job shadow. So this is going to take a little bit more time, a little bit more effort in scheduling, but it's allowing them to see a real day-to-day operation. So it could be a couple of hours or it could be an entire day, but it helps the candidate verify whether or not they actually want the job before you end up making the offer and paying for it later if they end up changing their mind. But again, it's another opportunity to observe their behavior throughout the day. And we're looking at like what is their level of attention to detail? How's their attitude throughout the day? What was their engagement like? What was their communication like? What was their interest level in the type of work? Did they ask a lot of questions? Were they easy to talk to? And obviously, how that relationship starts in the morning is going to progress throughout the day as you chit-chat about life and history and other experiences and opportunity, and you get to know this person a little bit better. And often on a job shadow day, they're not even necessarily job shadowing the decision maker or a boss. We might be putting them with someone who would be a peer or someone who already does the role that they would be stepping into. And so again, you're changing the dynamic and the guard is dropping a little bit, and we're getting a better idea. It is so much more worth it to verify someone's capacity and character alignment with one job shadow day than it is to make the offer and then invest all of this time into onboarding and training only to have things not work out a few weeks or a few months down the road. So another thing that we can also do is a quick Google search. I mean, this is just a verification process through public records. Like what exists out there on the internet about them? If we just Google their name and the location, what comes up? Are there any interviews? Are there any articles? Are there any things that would raise questions or anything that points to any inconsistencies? I once sat in on an interview with this guy, and it was a second interview. So he'd gone through the first interview, and the hiring manager was like, I think I want to offer him the job, but I'm not sure. Can you come in and sit in on this second one? So I was like, Yeah, absolutely. So I go in and sit in on this second one, and this guy has this story about some articles that had come out and some unhealthy relationships with a previous business partner and just like a not good situation. And he had told us one story, and when he painted the story, it made him sound like the victim. My red flags were on high alert in this situation because I'm like, You want I wanted to believe him, but there was something inside being like, I just I don't feel right about this. I I I don't think that this is worth it. But I left the interview, I Googled his name, the article came up that he had been referring to, and within the first paragraph of the article, I was able to actually see that there were inconsistencies in the story that he was telling versus what had been reported within the article. And so right away I'm like, okay, that is a deal breaker for me because he's not even being truthful about the specifics of the situation. And so we ended up passing on that and did not proceed any further. And I think that ended up being a very, very good decision. Now that's a quick Google search. The other area that I would search is I would do a social search. I would look on, I would do a Facebook search, Instagram search, LinkedIn search. And so this is a verification through social presence. And this is just to see what are they posting? What do they feel comfortable posting on their Facebook profile, on their LinkedIn profile? What kinds of comments are they leaving? Is this someone who is stirring the pot on social? Is this someone who is very outspoken and controversial on some topics? Is this someone who very much their story looks like it aligns with exactly what you see on their social profiles? And that's really all we're checking for is where is the alignment between what they say and what we see? And then the tenth thing that I would also do is I would do reference checks. And so this is just verification through what other people have to say. And with reference checks, I like to specifically ask for different types of references. So a personal reference, a professional reference, a coworker reference, a manager reference, a subordinate reference. Like not necessarily all of those, but different combinations of those. So we're not getting three different, three coworker references. Like we want references from different walks and different facets of their life, having conversations with those references about their capacity and about their character, so that we can verify that these stories line up and what the candidate has said about themselves also aligns with what a reference would say about themselves. So there are 10 different options with varying degrees of time and effort to put forth. But even if you were to do all of them, and even if you were to put more time into the verification process up front, it would pay off every time. It would be so worth it in the cost that it can save you if you were to bring the wrong person on board. So you have all these options. Highly recommend you use them. Don't offer anyone a job unless you're a hundred percent confident that you want to hire them and you know that you have gone through all of these verification processes. If we're insure, the default is not to just give them a chance. It should be let's get more evidence. Let's verify capacity, let's verify character alignment. So if you need any interview questions to help you kind of dig into especially the character side of an individual, check out our high signal interview questions. You can just go to ClearAuthentic Brands.com slash resources. You can download those questions there. But that is all for this episode. I will see you next time.