Why Interviews Fail To Reveal Truth

Amy Dardis 0:12

I'm your host, Amy Dardis. And in today's episode, we are diving into how to curate the interview experience so that you're facilitating connection. Because interviews are often very tense and stressful situations. People get very nervous. It can produce a very performance type feel. And it also feels pretty interrogative a lot of times. Like it's just like you go into this room and it's stale and it's unwelcoming. And maybe there's a panel and there's people and they're judging you and they're asking questions and you want to get this job. And it just so you get flustered and you want to say the right things. And maybe they come out and maybe they don't, but the guard is up. And on the like business side, on the interviewer side, we're just not getting the real version of themselves. And that is the problem because interviews are all about just discovering the real side of someone. Because we just need to know like, do they have the abilities and the potential to thrive in this role? Do they have the values and the characteristics and the personality and the working style to thrive within our company, within our unique DNA? And we're just not going to know that if we don't get a glimpse of who that real person is. Because no matter what happens in the interview, no matter the right answers to the questions, no matter how good their answers are, if that's just not the real version of them, it doesn't matter. Like it always, the truth will always reveal itself, right? Like the truth always comes to the surface. And the goal of the interview process is to find that truth early on. And so how we facilitate the interview, what we do with our body language and our tone of voice and what we say or what we don't say, all of these things are adding to the experience, or I mean, they're going to define the experience in some way. So I want to go through how to actually curate an interview experience so that it facilitates genuine connection. So we can create an environment where people feel comfortable opening up, they're going to relax a little bit, they're going to be themselves. And so, what do we do intentionally to structure that? So, first of all, let's talk about the principles. So, I always like to recommend having more than one person in the room. I recommend having two, two, three people in the room plus the candidate. I don't recommend having any more than that. I've done more than that. And you can get around it. It makes it harder though. So just I think the perfect number is two to three plus the candidate. And there's a couple of reasons why we have more than just the interviewer and the candidate in the room. So one thing is more than one person from your business is going to give you just another perspective, another set of eyes, another set of ears, listening to answers and being able to, you know, go back and forth and deliberate on the interview. Like, oh, this is what I picked up on. Oh, this is what I picked up on. And that is just so beneficial, right? Like there's just wisdom in having multiple counselors and it just not being only you. And then when you have buy-in from other people on your team, it just helps make a more committed and confident decision, knowing that if it doesn't work out, obviously we're trying to foster an experience where we're avoiding that. However, when you have more buy-in up front, it's like, okay, we did this together. We made a decision. We're bringing someone onto our team. And we all saw and agreed on the same criteria. So that is like benefit number one for you. The other benefit that is happening is we are intentionally choosing people to come into the room so that it's creating more of a conversation type vibe instead of a panel vibe. And what we want is to create dialogue and dynamic between the two people from the company. So, like if you are the interviewer and your coworker, we want you talking to each other. We want there to be some back and forth, maybe some banter, maybe some joking, because this is one going to help the candidate feel more at ease. Like, oh, these are just real people. And then two, it's also giving them a real life glimpse into what dynamics and relationships are like between the people that actually work there. This is a selling point. It's a competitive advantage. It is real life proof that coming to work for you is a good idea, that it's going to be fun, that there's healthy dynamics, especially if you are the hiring manager and you actually have a some a direct report in there with you. That is very revealing. So a candidate can see, oh wow, this is how report kind of interacts with and talks to their boss or their supervisor, instead of it being just peer-to-peer. It's just an another dynamic. All of these little nuances are communicating, they're all things that we're using as information to make decisions. And the candidate is making a decision. You know, chances are you are not the only company that they are interviewing with. And what you do in the interview and how you talk and who you talk to and what you talk about, all of those are signals that can drastically set you apart in a really great way, or they can make you seem exactly like every other process. So that is why I say have two to three. I would choose people that they're most likely going to cross paths with, people who understand the role, people who read people and body language well, but mainly you want to have someone in there who's really good at making other people feel comfortable. Like this is your jokester, this is someone who has expressive personality and can smile or laugh easy, and we'll talk about that in a little bit. But if you, as the interviewer, are not naturally very expressive, bring in somebody who's going to compliment that side of you. Bring in someone who is expressive, who is encouraging. Like bring in someone who is good at building natural rapport with people because it's really going to make a huge difference in the interview and how the candidate feels and in the answers that you end up getting from them. And really, that's what it all comes back to is it's not about hearing the right answers. It's about making people feel comfortable enough that they are giving you honest answers. And that's all we want. That that's really all we want. We just want honest answers. We just want a real glimpse into who somebody is as a person. And so, just the more we can bring guards down through all of these little elements, it really does make a huge difference. So we're gonna have the people in the room. And honestly, like the the more comfortable the environment is, the better. Maybe there's some like background music playing, like obviously not too loud, but but just enough to like take the edge off. Maybe the room smells like coffee. Maybe you're not just in like a really stale, clinical, uncomfortable environment. Like maybe there's a candle, maybe there's some like donuts or cookies, or you know, just little things that just can make people be like, oh, okay. Like I, these are real people, right? And all we're doing is having a real conversation. So then we're gonna move into questions. And we want to have an intentional order and flow to our questions. So we want to start off with like surface level questions, like just really easy, like open, broad. Let me ask you a question, and then just see what they come back with. And then little by little, we're going to dive deeper and deeper. We're gonna dive deeper into questions themselves. So we're gonna take it down level by level by level. And then we're also going to go deeper with the questions we ask. So towards the beginning of the interview, we're gonna be asking more surface level questions, like questions that people feel more comfortable answering. And then as we're building connection and rapport over the course of not only this interview, but I always say do two interviews. So we're let's say we go from like level A to D in the first interview, right? So we're gonna start off with question level A, and then we're gonna go to question level B, and then we're gonna go to question level C, right? And each one is like specifically like a little bit deeper. And then we're also asking these questions very intentionally because each question should be being mapped back to what specifically are we looking for? And then by the end of that first interview, if we get to level D, we're just naturally at a deeper level anyway. We're we're exploring more real topics. Then when they come back for the second interview, we don't start at A again. We would actually start at like C, you know, open it up a little bit, take a couple steps back, and then we would go deeper, and then we could go C, D, E, F, and so on, you know, and just going a little bit deeper because we're getting to know someone, and getting to know someone requires interactions over time. It involves trust, it involves connection. And so we have to be purposely and intentionally facilitating that and making sure that that is the process that we're following, and we're not just staying at levels A, B, and C, which is one of the biggest mistakes that happens in interviews is that we just stay on the surface. And because we don't ever go deeper, we don't get that real glimpse into who somebody is, and then the decisions that we make are based off of inaccurate information. So after we have that flow, we want to make sure that we are asking those questions specifically that map back to that criteria and that the questions that we're asking are revealing evidence and patterns. And so we're actually gonna dive into what evidence means and how we look for that in the next episode. So stay tuned for that. But if you need help asking questions, if you need help asking like better questions, you're getting away from surface level questions that are easy to answer and easy to rehearse. I actually have a resource for you. These are high signal interview questions that get away from anything that is rehearsed. So you can go to ClearAuthentic Brands.com slash resources and download those interview questions. If you struggle with your questions, these will help tremendously. Like these are guaranteed to get you into some new territory that you've probably never entered into your interviews. So the next thing that is so crucial to the interviews is not only what we ask, but also how we respond. So how we respond, our body language, our tone of voice, the look on our face, all of those things are really important. And in an interview, it can be so easy to just like be expressionless. You have like your notes, maybe you're on a Zoom call, you're typing away, your face is unreadable. And that's terrifying, honestly, like for a candidate. That's just like so demoralizing as they're sitting there being like, and then and then we're just not getting anywhere. So when I'm in an interview, I purposely, consciously put effort into okay, what's my face doing right now? Like, am I smiling? Am I is my mouth slightly upturned? Like, is my face relaxed? Am I giving facial expressions? Like, we do want to be expressive in the interview. We want to let them know that what they're saying is good because we need to encourage them to keep opening up. Even if, even if they tell you an answer that you hate, even if they tell you a lot of answers that you hate, keep encouraging it, keep keep affirming it because that is what is real for them. And that is all we care about. Like all we care about is what do you really think about this? And so I'm going to respond in a way that says, hey, let's keep going down this direction so that I get a good sense of who you are and how you think and what you value. So a couple tiny little things that help are one smile, like just consciously, and like, I mean, not, you know, big, huge, cheesy grin, but just in general, when you're asking a question and you're listening for answers, just try to have like a little smirk, you know, just like a little, hey, it's, you know, I'm an approachable person. Like, what would a warm look on my face look like? You know, that when they say something that is like good or slightly funny or entertaining in the least, give like 30% more expression than maybe you normally would. Like just smile a little bigger, laugh a little louder, just to communicate, like, hey, that was good. We like that. I am all about trying to make people laugh and cracking jokes in an interview. Like, say something off the cuff, like, you know, rattle their feather feathers a little bit in a good way. That's just like, hey, look, we're just people. Like, we're we can we can just talk about something real. And so jokes and laughter long way. Again, that is why having that second person there in the interview is so helpful from your team because you and that person can banter back and forth together. You guys can joke a little bit, laugh a little bit. Maybe one of you is funnier than the other, lean on those strengths. That will help you feel more relaxed. It'll help the candidate feel more relaxed, and that's when we start to actually get somewhere. So little things like just nodding, you know, just like, oh, okay, like a nod, you know, even if you don't smile, nod your head. It's so encouraged, it's so helpful, it's so encouraging. And then saying things like, oh, yeah, like that sounds really good. Tell me more about that, or hey, that's an interesting perspective, or like giving some sort of verbal response to how they answered a question that says, that was good, or tell me more about that. Now we don't want to like lie, I don't want to be misleading at all. If they said something that you didn't agree with, you do not need to be like, yeah, really like that answer. Don't do that. But it's just to encourage them that they're on the right track so that they keep on opening up. If you're doing a Zoom call, even little things like the emojis, like the little thumbs up, the little heart, the little like laugh emoji, the smile, just seeing like a little emoji pop up on the screen, you know, it's just like, oh, oh, wow, okay, that was good. I can keep going. Like, it's the little things that go a long way. Being willing to even share a little bit about your own story, and we'll talk about where and when, but if they were to, if we're like, hey, tell me something a little bit about yourself, and you're like, Yeah, I or the candidate says, Yeah, I really love to cook. If you were the interviewer and you also love to cook, I would share that. I'd be like, Oh, yeah, cool, me too. Like, boom, common ground, and that one little response helps that person's guard drop just a little bit. Or, yeah, I really enjoy watching football on the weekends. Cool. What's your favorite team? Oh, really? You know, poor choice. Like, you know, like throw a joke in there. So little things about just acknowledging not only them, but even sharing a little bit about yourself, not to take away from the interview, but just enough to help facilitate that connection and that conversation element so that it does feel more like a conversation than an interrogation. And I think that's kind of like the big, I don't know, determining factor here in the back of our minds is if you're just like, okay, is this feeling like a conversation or is this feeling like an interrogation? And if it's feeling like an interrogation, what would I do in a normal conversation if I was just chatting it up with someone at the store or at the gym or at church, you know? And then lean, lean towards that side of you. Giving permission. So if you ask a question, and ideally you're this is actually happening a lot, you're gonna ask a question that they don't have the answer to. Yay, we like that. Because we don't want answers that they are getting, or they don't, we don't want to ask questions that they have gotten in a thousand different interviews. We actually want to be catching them off guard with the questions that we're asking. So we're gonna ask a question, and what we want is for them to like have to think about it, for them to have to be like, oh, you know, and then pause, freeze, think. Good. Yes, we want that. Let them know that. Give them permission to be like, hey, take your time. Like, I understand that this is not a common interview question. We are looking to just get to know you better, and we're trying to ask you questions that you don't normally get asked. So please take your time. Like, just that little bit goes a long way in helping someone be like, oh, okay, it's it's okay that I pause. It's okay that I think about this, it's okay that I stutter and stumble. Because yes, I hope that you didn't prepare for this interview. I hope you didn't memorize a bunch of stuff. I hope that when you come in and sit down and we talk, we're talking about real things based on real life and real examples. And it's a process of like, oh, let me remember that. Let me think about what those details were and what that context was. And I don't have My whole life, just at the top of my head all the time, you know. Sometimes I have to be like, oh, let me think about that. So good. And then, yeah, your tone and your voice, just putting in that extra effort, trying to be just a little bit extra warm, a little bit extra, you know, your sales voice, right? Like when you're when you're talking on the phone with uh a client and you're you're trying to earn their business, it's that one. It's not the one where you're just like at home and you've had a rough day and you're just like, eh, like, but there's just something about the interview process that I think it just makes us all kind of forget this like natural human interaction, and we throw all that out the window, and then we all become like more robotic versions of ourselves. And that just does not help us get to the goal that we're really after. So this is how I would structure like an actual interview, like from start to finish. So the first thing I would do is the interview starts, and I always like to start off with introductions, like, hey, this is so-and-so, and they do this, or or have people introduce themselves and then setting expectations for the interview. And this is where up front I let them know, like, hey, look, we are trying to get to know you. Like, this is really important to us. We are trying to get to know the real version of who you are. We're gonna ask you questions that hopefully you have not been asked before. We are wanting to dive into some real topics. We do not expect that you have answers prepared ahead of time. If anything, we discourage that. So please take your time, please be honest, and let's just have a real conversation. That sets the tone for what you're expecting from them. If you don't say that, they have no idea and it it can go down a very long path. Or sorry, down a very wrong path. So then we start with like a little rapport building and what I call establishing a baseline. So rapport building is that basic initial, just kind of like back and forth, like we're not getting into anything serious. It's this tell me a little bit about yourself. And we're not talking about work. Like, what do you like to do for work or what do you like to do for fun outside of work? What we're trying to see is how do they talk normally? Like, what is their normal baseline for body language, body tone, cadence, rhythm? Like, how fast do they talk? How slow do they talk? What's a rehearsed answer versus what's something that's a genuine answer? So this is like in a lie detector test. Like they always start off with like, what's your name and how old are you? So they can like understand what is the truth versus what's the lie later. And it's not even that we're trying to like catch people in a lie, but we are just trying to see like what is how do you talk when you're at the gym? How do you talk when you're having dinner? Like, and then we have to figure that out by asking them a question that is so just unthreatening, right? Or non-threatening. A question that just doesn't freak them out at all. Like, what's your favorite baseball team? Who watches baseball? What's your favorite football team? You know, just like did you grow up playing sports? You know, just something just real easy, real casual. Are you a dog person or a cat person? So we want to do that and then share a little bit about yourself too, because how you how much you guys share about yourself, like this is what I do, this is how long I've been with the company. You know, I also am a huge Seahawk fan, like, you know, just a little bit that is like, hey, yes, we are humans. Let's let's remember that. Then we would move into like the role understandings and like any clarifying questions, like, you know, that any questions that they might have, just figuring out if they understand like what are the expectations of the job and what are they getting into, and just making sure you guys are aligned on the same page as that. And then I would move into like a little mini company pitch. So this is doing two things. Like we're one setting expectations, and two, we're doing what I call a scare test. So the little mini company pitch is like why work here, right? Like this is when we're talking about what do we value? It's talking about like what's our work style and how do we operate? What are our non-negotiables? Like, what do we expect from our best people? We're letting them know that one, we have these expectations, two, this is a big deal to us. And three, if you don't match this exactly, you will not enjoy working here, which is why we have this little scare test. Because it's really, they should be hearing this and being like, okay, this is either gonna excite the heck out of them or it's gonna scare them. And they're gonna be like, no, that is not me. Because if you're talking about how you guys are a thrive in the gray area, processes are more like suggestions type of environment. Let them know that. Like, be very clear about like this is how we operate. If they are someone who is a black and white SOP, I follow the process, I follow the details, I thrive in structure. When they hear you talk about thriving in the gray area, they're gonna be like, their pulse is gonna beat faster. Like they're gonna get a little stressed. And that's gonna be their indicator that says, Oh, maybe I don't want to work here. And so we need to be as clear as possible with them about what we expect from our team, but also like for the people who are within those expectations, man, they love working here. Like, man, this is what binds us, this is what drives us, this is what inspires us, this is why we work so well together. And then after that, we're gonna move into like the bulk of our questions, you know, of you know, specifically. So if we're in the first interview, we're talking a lot about capacity. So we're talking about those abilities, potential, bandwidth. We're very much focused on the role itself. And then if we're in the second interview, then we're talking about character and we're talking more about values and motivations and non-negotiables. In either way, in both interviews, there's always going to be a little bit of overlap. But for the most part, it's like we do have a very set line of questions that map to the scorecard, that map to what it is are we trying to actually determine through this process. And again, if you have some struggle with like just asking questions, here's what I would say. So every set of questions is unique to every business, right? Like every interview, regardless of the or if it's a role or a company, it's like the questions you're asking are specific to your role and your company. So we don't work with like a bunch of generic questions. However, if you are just looking for some better questions to get you out of your interview rut that you're in, you can go to Clearauthenticbrands.com slash resources, download those questions. They will help you get into some new territory. So we're gonna ask those questions, and then obviously we're gonna open it up for them to ask questions and have conversation and dialogue, and hopefully throughout that question section, it feels more like dialogue and again, not like an interrogation. And then we're gonna close it and we're gonna talk about next steps. So if it's interview one, we're gonna talk about how we'd like to invite them to interview two, only if we enjoyed interview one with them. If we did not enjoy interview one with them, then we say, we'll let you know. But yeah, we just end it with what they can expect moving forward. And then that concludes that process. So if we want to get truth, if we want to get that glimpse into just the real version of who someone is, how we curate the whole experience from the way we ask questions to the room, to the people in the room, that absolutely is influencing whether or not we see that real version of them or not. So, as always, you can get those resources at clearauthentic brands.com slash resources. That is all for this episode. See you next time.