Welcome back to the Building an Authentic Brand Podcast. I'm your host, Amy Dardis. And in today's episode, we are diving into what is it that we are really looking for in an interview? Like when we approach our interview, the way that we decide what questions we're gonna ask, the way that we decide our criteria or our scorecard. It all comes back to clarity always. You hear me talk about this often, but really we can take a very strategic and intentional approach to interviewing that is going to be a game changer for the outcomes of this entire process by being clear on exactly what it is that we're looking for in an interview. Because if you're not clear, then you end up doing what a lot of people end up doing, which is you have an interview, you have a good conversation, you ask a lot of questions, and you hear what you think are a lot of like quote good answers, right? You know, and then you're like, yeah, I think this person is gonna be a good fit. And then you make an offer, and then they come on board, and then within 30, 60, 90 days, maybe six months, maybe a year, you are finding out things that you missed in the interview, and you're like, wait a minute, who is this person? Like, this is not who I thought I hired. What they told me doesn't align with what I'm actually seeing. And that's really what this interview process is all about is does what they say align with who they are? Like, do we get a glimpse of the real person within the interview? And how do we do that? Like, what are we looking for that's gonna determine is this person going to be a good hire? So when we build out a hiring process, there's really three things that we are focusing on. We are focusing on capacity, character, and evidence. And everything you ask in an interview should always point back to one of these things. And that's the beauty of I think taking this as approach is we can logically map everything back to everything along the way. Like it's it's a really fun system. Like it is it is much a system and a science as it is an art. And as long as you understand one, why we do what we do, but then two, how we actually implement it. And if you follow the process, you will consistently get much, much better results. So every question we ask needs to reveal whether this person has the capacity, the character, and the evidence to support everything that was said. And if not, if it doesn't map back to that, then it's just noise, then it's just extra. And so what we want to do is we want to take a very essentialist approach to this process, which is this 2080 rule, right? Like 20% of what you ask is gonna reveal 80% of the information that you need to know. A lot of interview processes do the 80-20, where it's like they ask like 80% of the questions that they're asking are only revealing 20% of the information we need to know. And there's two metaphors I like to talk about. So one is, you know, the metaphor of like the iceberg, right? You see this picture and above the water, you see this like top of an iceberg, and it doesn't look that menacing or that big, but then you see the image of what it looks like beneath the water and it's monstrous. So interviewing can be like that, where in an in the process, the questions we're asking are only revealing the part that we see on the surface, but it's it's the the bulk of it, the bulk of what you need to know is beneath the surface, and that is what we are trying to drill into. And we can't just keep throwing a bunch of surface level questions when we're really trying to get to what is below the surface. Second story image I like to use is the idea that you are leaving money on the table. So imagine there's a table and you have, you know, a table filled with dollar bills, and then a table, and then the same table is also has a bunch of monopoly money and like coins and change. If you're asking the wrong questions, then you're picking up the change and the monopoly money, and you're leaving, you know, the real dollar bills, like the dollars, the fives, the tens, the twenties, the hundred dollar bills. You're leaving them on the table. And it's all because of the questions you're asking aren't revealing these three things. So the questions we ask need to first reveal capacity. So, does someone have the natural capacity to thrive in this role? And we are looking at three subsets within this. We're looking at abilities. So, what are their natural strengths, wiring, and skills? We're looking at how do they process information? We're looking at what do they bring to the table that they have already mastered, like what skills do they already have? We're looking at their innate ability to do something well and do something to a level of excellence. So when we talk about abilities, we are looking at like someone's natural ability to build relationships with people. We are talking about someone's natural ability to look at a spreadsheet, see a bunch of numbers, and be able to see the patterns and interpret what that information is saying. And by the way, I don't have that ability at all. I have the ability to, you know, easily connect with people, easily ask questions, like strike up a conversation, strike up a rapport. Like that's not something that requires a lot of effort on my part because it's naturally ingrained in my wiring and my personality. And because I've been doing it so long, these are skills that I have developed along the way. Now, when you're looking at someone who's maybe more numbers-oriented, it's the ability to do quick math in their head. It's the ability to look at different situations and problems and be able to break it down and come to a like logical mathematical conclusion. So that's the difference between abilities. Potential. So potential is their ability to learn. It's their ability to maybe they don't have experience with it, but because of the way that their brain processes information, because of their mindset going into things, you're gonna be able to coach them and train them very quickly. So this is the difference between bringing someone on board, or let's say you bring two people on board, and you're walking them through the same training program, you're giving them the same amount of time, the same amount of information, and you're seeing that one person is getting it much faster than the other person. It's because their brain naturally has the ability to learn that information in that way. It's the difference between like someone who learns through auditory versus someone who learns through visual, like we just all learn differently, and not everything works for everybody. So we just need to understand does the way this person learns, as well as what we're trying to teach them, like if we go back to this spreadsheet analogy here, if you coach me on psychology and social dynamics and messaging and words and marketing and relationship building, if I knew nothing, if I didn't have any of the experience that I had before, and you started coaching me on that stuff, I would immediately start to get it. Like as you're explaining concepts, my brain would be like, yes, I get that. Because my brain is naturally wired to think that way. It's very people-oriented, it's very words-oriented, which is why I've developed the skills that I have, is because when I started reading books, when I started putting myself in situations, that's what I was picking up on very quickly. Now, if you were to sit me through a 10-hour Excel spreadsheet class and we talked about numbers and formulas and looking at profit and loss statements, my brain has to work 10 times as hard to understand like a fraction of the information. So it's not to say that I wouldn't ever get it, it's that it's going to take much longer. It is going to be much harder for me to get there, and I'm never going to get to the level that somebody will if they do understand information like that, if their brain can look at a spreadsheet and naturally see numbers and patterns. So that's potential. And then bandwidth. Bandwidth has everything to do with just where we are at in our life right now. So we're looking at what support do we have right now, what structures do we have right now, how much margin do we have in our life right now. And different seasons lead to different things. Like if we are going through a divorce, that is tapping our emotional bandwidth. If we are going through raising toddlers, that is tapping into probably our physical and mental bandwidth. And these are just things to be aware of is the idea of bringing somebody on board at this season in time, at this season in their life, do they have the support, the structure, and the margin to do this job well? And that can change. Maybe now is not a good time, but maybe in a year or two, it's going to work out so much better for them. So that's just something that we want to be aware of always. And so this goes back to this question of does someone have the natural capacity to thrive in this specific role? So we are looking at is this a sales role? Is this an admin role? Is this an operations role? And how does their brain work? What skills do they bring? What abilities do they bring? What's the natural wiring within them that's going to help them succeed within this role? And we want to ask questions that are going to reveal this information. So the questions we ask are so, so, so important. I just cannot even stress that enough. And just a little pro tip here: don't ever ask a hypothetical question. And you will hear me say this a lot. Don't ever ask a hypothetical. Don't ever say, How would you handle it if? Because we always work with what is, not what if. And so we'll get to that in a minute. So character. The second thing we need to understand is does this person have the character to thrive within our company? And so the big mistake a lot of companies will make here is they won't understand, they won't clearly define ahead of time what that specific character looks like. Because we can say we want someone who has good character, someone who's reliable, someone who has good work ethic. Like those all sound like really good attributes to have. And they are. But the idea here is that the way that your company operates and the things that you value are very unique. It is a unique DNA to your company. So we're not looking for all around character. We actually are looking for specific character. And we're breaking this down into what are the specific values that we have as a company? Like, do we value ownership? Do we value research? Do we value relationship building? Do we value results? Do we value candor? Do we value thinking outside the box? You know, it's like those are all very different things. And not everybody values all of those things. You as a company don't value all of those things. Like you might be a company that values research, taking your time, double checking things, taking responsibility, being honest and transparent. Or you might be a company that values innovative ideas, thinking outside thinking outside the box, pushing ourselves to be uncomfortable, giving tough feedback or like stressing candor. Like see how those each of those separate values are going to create like different types of environments, and it's gonna create a different type of experience for the client. And you're gonna find that people value one of those sets over another set. And everybody is gonna be different, and every company is going to look different, or maybe you're a company that values relationships and fun and empathy, you know. So very different here. So the important thing is you determine what is it that you value as a company and be specific. Then we want to find people who share those values. We don't train on these, we don't coach on these. I mean, yes, we we do as in like, hey, this is the expectation, but you have to find people who have these values that have these values in their life, that they've had these values in other work settings. Like it is very important to determine do we share these values? The other thing we want to look at is work style, which is how do we operate as a company? You know, are we fast-paced? Are we work, you know, well in ambiguity? Do we like to think on our feet, be able to prioritize and think critically? Or maybe this is a company that values lots of research, lots of brainstorming, lots of divergent thinking coming up with one agreed upon logic process-driven solution? Is this a company that, you know, we document everything? We have strong SOPs, we follow processes, and we need people who like that kind of black and white clarity. Or is this a company where it's like processes are more like guidelines, and we want people who like gray area and thrive in gray area. It's very different. And so you just have to determine how does my company work best? And then we need to find people who naturally thrive in those types of environments. We also need to know like the specific personality traits that we're looking for in people, and this ties back to values of like, okay, if this is what we value, what are the traits that we see in our best people that like help us identify what that looks like? Uh, I mean, traits can be something like people who are naturally laid back and easygoing versus someone who is more rigid and structured and intense and disciplined. You know, that's you're gonna ask different questions that are gonna reveal different information depending on that. Like, do we want people who really like to stay in their routines and feel stressed out when they don't have a routine? Versus someone who is very creative and thrives in flexibility and really takes a very like, hey, let's wake up and see what the day brings kind of approach to their day, versus someone who is like, I have my week scheduled, everything is planned out, I have a routine and I don't miss it. See how those are two very different types of people. Well, we need to know what's what are the types of people we need who are going to do their best work with our company. And then we have non-negotiables. So non-negotiables are when we just clearly call out the behaviors and the mindsets that what we do not allow within our organization. So if you're someone who values taking responsibility and ownership, then a non-negotiable are people who make excuses and try to blame others, like they shift blame. Or if you're someone who values candor, then non-negotiables are people who actually shy away from having difficult conversations because they're so prone to being a people pleaser that they they actually don't value candor and therefore have very different behaviors and mindsets and approaches towards feedback and conflict. So all of these different things are going to break down and we need to know what they are because each of these filters are going to give us the direction on what specific questions we need to be asking. And then that brings us to number three. The third thing we are looking for is evidence. So, what evidence did this candidate provide that answered those questions that gave us the information that we needed? So instead of you asking a question and the candidate giving an answer that sounds good, like the way they say it. The confidence with which they said it, it sounded good. And so you're like, okay, yes. But here's the thing: it's not about what someone claims, it's not about what they say, it's really about what they prove. And that's making sure that what they say aligns with their actions. And so we're looking for evidence of that in their real life. So a good answer or evidence that they answered the question is we are looking for real life patterns and examples, which means we don't ask a hypothetical question. We don't say, tell me about how you would handle this if, because that has not happened. That doesn't give us a specific example of something that has happened. And if it hasn't happened in their life, if they don't have a real life example or pattern, then you have no idea how they're going to handle something. And if they haven't been in that type of situation, then it means they don't inherently have the experience that or wiring or skill sets or abilities that you are looking for. And you have to accept that that that is that is the truth. Like you want the answer that sounds good, but we have to know what this Canada actually brings to the table. And we can only bring things to the table based on what we have actually lived. So when we're looking for evidence, we are looking for real life examples, details, timelines, specifics based on things that have actually happened. And we are looking for patterns between work situations and life situations, because believe it or not, you're the same person at work as you are in your life outside of work. And there might be nuances to that and different dynamics, but you're the same person. Like you are not at nearly as compartmentalized as you think. Like if you are a relationship-driven person, then you are a relationship-driven person inside of work, at home, outside of work, at your church, in your community, on your kids' parents with soccer team, going to a barbecue, striking up a conversation in the grocery store. Like that doesn't change. You will naturally feel comfortable talking to people, be able to build trust and rapport in whatever situation that you are in. If you are naturally somebody who thrives on ambiguity and flexibility, your life patterns will reflect that. It's the difference between meal planning for your week and having every day planned out. It's like, okay, this is what we're doing for lunch and breakfast and dinner on Monday. This is what we're doing on Tuesday. This is what we're doing on Wednesday. Versus here are five meals that I have groceries for this week. Whatever order I make them in, whatever day I do them on is up for grabs. It's open to interpretation. We're just gonna work with what we've got. So that reveals someone who has a plan, has the processes and the tools in place in the sense that it's like, I know these five meals, I grocery shopped for these five meals, but I didn't narrow it down to a specific meal on a specific day. And that's the difference between someone who is more structured and methodical and routine versus someone who is strategic but also likes flexibility. Real life example with grocery shopping, they're gonna take that same mindset, that same approach at work. It's not different. Like you have people who like who are highly organized. Guess what? If their work, if if their desk is clean and organized and neat at work, their house is gonna be clean and organized and neat at home as long as they're the ones who control that. Now, if they have four kids at home and a wife who's messy or a husband who's messy, then obviously there's different dynamics going on there. But it's like, what does their space look like? When they have full control of it, do they like a spot for everything? Are they someone who likes to pile things? Are they someone who likes to have like the labels and tags on things? I mean, these are all little nuances that feed you information. They it's all evidence based on what is actually showing up in their life. So we're gonna look at the evidence that they provide, and then we're gonna check it with this idea of does this evidence one support what they're saying, and two, align with my specific criteria. So again, these things are the capacity of the character and the evidence that you need. And if you just focus on these three things, making sure that every interview has like answers, answers these. Like, does this person have the capacity? Does this person have the character? And do I have the evidence that supports that? Then your hiring is gonna become so much more objective, so much more consistent, and it's gonna be way less stressful. So, with the evidence and the questions, once again, you do have to ask questions that are specific to your criteria. It's not just about asking good questions or general questions. Like we have to ask the right questions, and that's determined based on the specific criteria that we're looking for. However, I do have some high signal interview questions that are built to reveal real evidence based on things like, you know, what is this person's like motivations in life? Like what motivates them? Are they intrinsic things or extrinsic things? You know, what kinds of things did this person value? They're all questions that are based on, you know, tell me about a time when none of it is how would you handle it if, and all of these questions are actually relevant to real life examples. So they're not specific to, you know, tell me about a time in your past work experience when, you know, you had to dot dot. Like it's an a there are questions you could ask that would reveal information for any situation, whether it's work or whether it is their personal life. So if you want to look those, get a copy of those, you can just go to Clearauthenticbrands.com slash resources and you can download the interview questions from there. I guarantee you there are questions in there that you are not asking that are going to give you so much more information than probably the questions that you're currently asking. So once again, that's just clearauthenticbrands.com slash resources. That is all for today's episode. See you next time.