Welcome back to the Building a Clear Authentic Brand Podcast. I'm your host, Amy Dardis, and in today's episode, we are diving into why you should always do two interviews. Of all of the interview tweaks that you could make to improve your process, this is number one for me. Like, if you only do one interview, change it to two. Like just right off the bat. Like if you do nothing else differently but just have a second interview with someone, it will 100% reveal information that you are missing out on in the first interview. So not everybody only does one, but I think plenty of businesses do. Or what can happen is you could do maybe an initial screening, which is just an initial 15-20 minutes where you're just making sure that they're a viable candidate. I don't count an initial screening as a first interview. So if you're doing an initial screening and then an interview and then an offer, I would still add a second interview in that process. So here's the problem with only doing one interview. One interview only ever scratches the surface. Like one interview just isn't enough because you're dealing with people. And how many times in your life have you had a first impression of someone that was wrong? Or someone had a first impression of you that was wrong. It was either wrong because you had a good feeling and they turned out to not be who you expected them to be, or maybe you had a bad feeling and they turned out to be someone else. I know I remember I had met one of my husband's friends. I met him at church and I had talked to him, like it was just short, like you know, quick introduction, like a few minutes at first. And then I had seen him again maybe a few weeks later. And both times I honestly thought this guy was just like a total dud, like no personality, like awkward conversation, no expression. And I was like, that's your friend, you know, because it didn't match what my husband had been telling me about him. And he was like, that's not who he is. He's like, I don't know why he's acted like that when he's met you, because that's that's not at all who he is. I'm like, uh, okay, well, well, a few weeks after that, he had the friend had come over to the house, and I ended up meeting the real side of him, who was outgoing, funny, fearless. I mean, not afraid to say what he was thinking on his mind, like just a totally different person, totally different experience, totally different connection. But the first few times it was it was awkward. I think he was nervous. He was like meeting his buddy's wife, and you know, there was just this weird dynamic going on. And so we didn't get the the real picture of who that person was, or even if you're like, you know, on the dating scene right now, like you just like the first date isn't always the real picture of who they are. So the interview process is the same thing, like if we really just take all of the nuances and expectations out of it, like an interview process is really just the process of meeting a person, getting to know them, and deciding if they're going to be a good fit to enter into a more longer-term committed relationship with. I mean, that's really what's happening here. And so you just cannot do that in one interview. Most of the time, like you, you know, you have this interview process, it's it's formal, they're nervous, you're probably coming across more guarded than you even are normally. They walk in, they want to impress you, like they're prepared. They have this, you know, some rehearsed answers probably in their head. They're, you know, have gone through probably other multiple interviews in the process, especially if they're looking, actively looking for a different job. They're ready to sell you, right? Like they're ready to like tell you why they're so great. And and we do want that. Like we we are, we want to know why you're so great, but we want to know like the real story. Like, we want to know why you're so great. We want to know why you're not so great. We want to know what you bring to the table. We want to know what red flags or what obstacles we might be facing. We want to know a lot of things. And it is so hard to uncover that stuff, especially in the first interview, because the guard is up. And so it's really hard to get past that surface level stuff because there's so much more to that person. And here's the thing like who you hire, like that person that shows up in that first interview, no matter how great it is that that of the things that they say, no matter how good of a first impression it is, the person who really shows up on the job six months down the road, that's who we're hiring. Like, we are hiring the real person, the person who is flawed, imperfect, has strengths, has weaknesses, has a sense of humor, has relationships, has a life. Like all of those things in a person's life affect who they are on the job. And that's who we're entering into this long-term committed relationship with, and that's the person that we need to know. So, how do we get to know that person? Well, that's where the magic of the second interview comes in because that's really where things start to get more real. You have a first interview, they come in, they say all the right things, they impress you, it goes good. And chances are they have no idea what you're thinking. Like they have no idea your response, whether they're saying the right thing, the wrong thing, and they're not gonna know until you call them and say, Hey, would you like to come back for a second interview? And that conversation right there immediately lowers their guard down just a little bit because it says, Oh, I said something that they liked. Like they liked me enough to want to see me again. And that is where somebody shows up a little bit differently. So their guard comes down a little bit, they're a little bit more comfortable, and that's when you start to see a little bit more of who they are. You also get to see, like, you know, a different outfit, a different hairstyle, maybe. One time I sat in on an interview with a client, and the first time he came in, he was so nervous. He talked a ton, and his hair was like slicked back, like gelled, and like look, it looked like he didn't do it that way very often, and it didn't fit like his personality, it seemed kind of off. Well, he came back a second time. He was still very very talk talkative. That's just but that's who he is. He's a talkative guy. But man, he was so much less nervous, he was so much more relaxed, and his whole outfit and appearance and demeanor were different, but they were more in line with who he was. Like he was he still looked professional, but like his hair was not slicked back, it was like done completely differently, but it was very much more so like, oh, that's actually what he looks like. Like that is what he looks like on a regular basis. So even these little tiny nuances of like what they wear and what they look like, and are they on time again? And how do they walk into the room? And who do they meet and greet on the way in, and who do they chat with on the way out? I mean, we're looking at all of these little signs, and a second interview is just one more time to get to see, like, oh, are you who you say that you are? And it's not just about who you say that you are, we're watching what you do, we're watching how you show up, we're watching how you engage with other people, and that's super important. So the more interactions we can have with people prior to hiring them, the better. But we want to do it so that we're not obviously extending this out so that it's like this four-month-long process. Like, we don't want that. I believe two interviews is plenty. Like, you can do what you need to do in two interviews, plus the little interactions that happen between there, you know, the phone calls, the emails, the calendar invites, like those types of things. It's enough to give you a pretty good idea. Now, with that caveat, I think the magic is all about the conversation that happens during those interviews. So it's not just that two interviews is enough, it's really what do we do with those two interviews? So that's kind of how I want to explain that next. So really, we're doing the first interview. And the first interview, I like to focus on capacity because that's what people are the most comfortable with. So the applicant comes in, they're nervous, their guard is up, and what we're looking to do is one, we're looking to establish some kind of personal connection. We're looking to establish some kind of rapport, you know, tell me about your hobbies, what do you like to do for fun outside of work? We're looking at their resume, we're talking about their work experience, what they're good at. But I don't spend a ton of time on the resume because I'm not so much focused on what their resume says that they've done. I'm focused on what do you have the capacity to excel at? So I am looking for do they have the wiring, the gifting, the potential, the bandwidth, the ability to excel in this specific role in this specific type of work. And people are pretty comfortable talking about these types of topics within a first interview. And so while we're getting a good idea of are they gonna thrive in the role, we're also trying to get them comfortable. We're also trying to like build that connection, we're trying to, you know, let get them to loosen up a little bit, joke a little bit. And if you leave that interview feeling like, okay, I think this person would be really great at sales or would be really great at operations, you know, whatever that role is, then that's when you call them up and you're like, hey, we really enjoyed the interview. We'd like to invite you back for a second interview, you know, on the phone. They're like, Yeah, absolutely. Like that sounds great, you know, especially if they enjoyed it too and they they really do want to work for you, then there's gonna be some genuine enthusiasm in their response. And in the second interview, it it is not a repeat of the first interview. So we're not talking about skills and experience and their resume and all of that. Like we should have been able to answer those questions in the first interview. Now, if we have a few follow-up questions, then we're gonna start off with that. But really, the second interview is where we're diving deeper into who they are as a person. And so we are talking, we're asking questions more about their character, their values, their motivations, you know, who they really are as a person. Like we're figuring out like their sense of humor and their work ethic and what they value and like who is that real person? And so we're asking different questions and we're asking deeper questions. And the reason we can do this is because we established some sense of like rapport and connection and trust in the be in the first interview, and some time has gone by and some other interactions have gone by that are making it comfortable enough, like we're facilitating this interaction intentionally so that we can actually dive into some of these things. Because if we were to bring up some of these questions in the first interview, they're gonna be too guarded, too closed off, too nervous, that they're not gonna be able to answer, like maybe fumble over some words or say some things that don't really matter. Or the I you're not even gonna get the answers that you really want. So even the timing of when and how we ask questions is super important. So we wanna like we want to curate the experience, like we want to curate this process of like building trust. And it's the same way that you would talk to any person. And that's the thing is we do this all the time, whether we're, you know, doing it in dating relationships, building friendships, small talk, networking at a barbecue or for a business or any type of situation. Like we never start off with the real stuff, right? It's always like, what's your name? What do you do? What are your hobbies? What do you do for fun? What do you do for work? Do you like it? You know, you talk about the weather. Like you start with these like kind of safe topics that everybody like accepts as like, you know, socially acceptable to talk about. And then after you kind of like feel them out and you you gauge where they're at, that's when you're like, okay, well, you know, where did you grow up? Or you find out that that they were raised by a single parent. And you're like, oh, like what how did that, you know, how did that shape you growing up? Or like, you know, what did you learn from that experience? And we get into things like, you know, the things that we value, the things that drive us. That's when we start to just uncover the real person. And again, it very much comes back to like what specific questions are we asking? And again, you can go to the Clearauthenticbrands.com slash resources and download the insightful interview questions download that we have that really dive into a couple of these different elements, like how to reveal like someone's true character, how to reveal someone's like motivation for wanting to work for you, questions to reveal, like what person like wants out of their life or what their natural skills and abilities are. The types of questions we ask when we ask them and the way that we ask them help us get to know like who is this real person? And just going from one interview to two is like right there. Just them hearing you want me back. Like I did well enough in the first interview that I can come back for the second one, or even sometimes being able to within the interview actually give them feedback or a positive response. It says, like, hey, I that's good. Like, I like that answer, like I appreciate your honesty, your your candidness, like that kind of response can help them continue to open up because you're giving them signals like, yeah, that's a good answer. Let's keep going, like let's keep down on that path. The other thing I want to kind of mention too is it's not just about having two interviews, it's also about having two interviews with the same person. So you have your first interview with one, two, three people. When you have the second interview, have the same people in the room again. You could potentially add one or two new people, obviously keeping the amount of people in the room to a minimum. But you have to bring in the same people that you had in the first interview because that's who they establish connection with. That's who they establish trust with. If you have group A in the first interview and group B in the second interview, it's not the same because their guard goes back up because it's new people, it's new body language, it's new dynamics that they have to navigate. And that keeps them from being able to lower that guard and actually open up and answer questions in a genuine and authentic way. So if you take anything away from this, I really, really, really hope that it is. Do a second interview because just if you've ever just done one or you've hired someone that just ended up not being a good fit, and you're like, man, they said all these great things in the interview, but then they showed up on site, and three months down the road, six months down the road, like that we just found out that that was all just BS, or that was just not who they really were. It's like, man, would would a second interaction have revealed some of those things? And I've just I've never been in a situation where a second interview wasn't worth it. Like I just I've never seen it. Sometimes you will have a first interview and you will have a really, really good feeling. And then the second interview, you will still have that really, really good feeling. And I love that. It's just confirmation. But not only is it confirmation, like yes, you want this person, but it's also more time to build the relationship. Like they, they're also like building a relationship with you, building a relationship with your team. Like there are all of these things going on that are going to contribute to the team. They're gonna contribute to the working environment, they're gonna contribute to that relationship of like that trust and that loyalty and everything you do in your hiring process, from the messaging that you put in on your careers page and your job descriptions to the conversations you have in your screening, to the conversation and questions that you have in your interview process, to what you are sharing and telling them throughout the process, to what they're picking up on, what they're seeing, like the dynamic between your team, the environment when they walk through your office to the onboarding process, like every single interaction that happens matters. And it is these are the building blocks to retention, these are the building blocks to loyalty and employees wanting to stay for the long term. So everything that you do in this process, it absolutely matters and it's building that foundation. So if you want, you know, if you want this strong, connected, reliable team, if you want a team that trusts each other and has like high engagement, you want better better retention and you want to lower those turnover rates, it all comes back to what you're doing in the hiring process and making. Sure, that you're getting a good idea of who someone really is. So, first interview is them showing you what they want you to see. And the second interview is you getting a glimpse into who they really are. So if you just start with doing two interviews, I guarantee you will start making better and more confident hiring decisions. I guarantee you, like it will be so worth it for that extra interaction, for that extra time that you spend. Is it gonna pay off in the long term? Big time. So that is all I have for you today. As always, you can check out those resources, those interview questions at Clearauthenticbrands.com slash resources. That's all for this episode. See you in the next one.